Which would you buy - 88 5-speed or 93 GTS?
09-03-2010, 04:14 AM
#31
Like some here, I have owned both.
Playing a little devil's advocate here, my '88 5spd was one of the most reliable and potent cars I have ever owned. If the '88 is in a color combo you like and has the options you want, you will really enjoy it while behind the wheel as well as looking at it from the outside.
I particularly like the fact that it didn't have the digital dash, I loved the analog look and only wish the clock was analog as well. I can attest to how safe a non airbag S4 is as well. Will it depreciate with every mile you drive more than the GTS? I would agree that it would. But for $29k you are getting a whole lot of car, don't lose sight of that when considering what to buy.
The GTS 5 spd is a rare bird indeed. And there is something about the subtle differences (flares and stance) that changed the GTS and gave the final 928 a truly imposing visual presence it always deserved.
Also underappreciated regarding the GTS is the truly awesome stopping power. These cars do so many things right, but when I press the brakes to demonstrate the binders at the limit, passengers are universally shocked at the eye popping stopping power.
But here is the rub. At least in my experience, the GTS has been as problematic from a maintenance standpoint as the S4 was practically w/o issue. My S4 was almost a 100k mi car, and with almost a third of the miles my GTS has needed a rebuilt steering rack, annoyingly burns oil,intermittent pinging (until Dr. Brown banged his head against the wall enough chasing down a fix), an ABS unit (that was fun for the wallet), a transmission with odd little gremlins (nothing big or at least that we have been able to discover decisively), and, at least in my eyes, those visually distracting rub strips (not an option exclusive to the GTS.)
These are my limited experiences individually with the two models that are in question. Your mileage may vary...
Good luck!
Playing a little devil's advocate here, my '88 5spd was one of the most reliable and potent cars I have ever owned. If the '88 is in a color combo you like and has the options you want, you will really enjoy it while behind the wheel as well as looking at it from the outside.
I particularly like the fact that it didn't have the digital dash, I loved the analog look and only wish the clock was analog as well. I can attest to how safe a non airbag S4 is as well. Will it depreciate with every mile you drive more than the GTS? I would agree that it would. But for $29k you are getting a whole lot of car, don't lose sight of that when considering what to buy.
The GTS 5 spd is a rare bird indeed. And there is something about the subtle differences (flares and stance) that changed the GTS and gave the final 928 a truly imposing visual presence it always deserved.
Also underappreciated regarding the GTS is the truly awesome stopping power. These cars do so many things right, but when I press the brakes to demonstrate the binders at the limit, passengers are universally shocked at the eye popping stopping power.
But here is the rub. At least in my experience, the GTS has been as problematic from a maintenance standpoint as the S4 was practically w/o issue. My S4 was almost a 100k mi car, and with almost a third of the miles my GTS has needed a rebuilt steering rack, annoyingly burns oil,intermittent pinging (until Dr. Brown banged his head against the wall enough chasing down a fix), an ABS unit (that was fun for the wallet), a transmission with odd little gremlins (nothing big or at least that we have been able to discover decisively), and, at least in my eyes, those visually distracting rub strips (not an option exclusive to the GTS.)
These are my limited experiences individually with the two models that are in question. Your mileage may vary...
Good luck!
09-03-2010, 05:46 AM
#32
Not the sharpest tool in the shed
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
1988 S4 5spd = Great open road racing platform (those big hips are less aerodynamic at high speed)
1993 GTS 5spd = Great car overall, last of the marque but with 'issues' regarding oil burn and weak #2, #6 rod bearings.
If you want a collectible low mileage show car go with the 88 and don't drive it much. If you want a good car that represents the most potential for fun and aesthetics and won't go down much in value from the present purchase price, go with the GTS.
For me, without question, the GTS though I toy with the idea of building up an ORR car. To do so would mean finding a 88-89 S4 5spd, not a low mile example.
1993 GTS 5spd = Great car overall, last of the marque but with 'issues' regarding oil burn and weak #2, #6 rod bearings.
If you want a collectible low mileage show car go with the 88 and don't drive it much. If you want a good car that represents the most potential for fun and aesthetics and won't go down much in value from the present purchase price, go with the GTS.
For me, without question, the GTS though I toy with the idea of building up an ORR car. To do so would mean finding a 88-89 S4 5spd, not a low mile example.
09-03-2010, 06:25 AM
#33
Rennlist Member
Get the GTS. I just bought an 88 Auto. If I had the $$$ I would buy that 93 in a heart beat. I have bought my last 2 928s on ebay. The first a 37k miles car that I have added over 40k in the last 5 years. The second 120k miles. The 120k mile car is just as nice and rides even better. I sold an 83 with 370k miles on it and it ran beautifully. It was just needing every bushing and wear item in the world and it is just cheaper to buy a new one than add all that stuff to the old one. I love 928s because you can drive the **** out of them and they will bring you home. Somehow I have managed to break most of my other cars by driving them hard. I have never broken a 928 by driving it hard. I now have my 4th and hopefully last one. It will be well cared for but driven hard. Why not, its not like you don't drive it for 10 years and get 100k $$$ back out of them.
In my opinion they are the best built car in the world and also the best value. That GTS is the prettiest color I have ever seen on a car and has all the other stuff as well. One last note, My first one was a low milage 79 bought in 91. When I got in there, all the hoses were dry-rotted and needed to be replaced. On my high milage 83, I never had an issue with that. If they are driven and cared for, you will get a car you can enjoy, drive year round and get your $$$ worth. On either one, just ge sure to keep up with the maintenance. No matter what anyone says, if you keep up the routine maintenance, the car will be utterly reliable. All my cars have been daily drivers. More $$$ for gas but what a way to go.
Best of luck,
In my opinion they are the best built car in the world and also the best value. That GTS is the prettiest color I have ever seen on a car and has all the other stuff as well. One last note, My first one was a low milage 79 bought in 91. When I got in there, all the hoses were dry-rotted and needed to be replaced. On my high milage 83, I never had an issue with that. If they are driven and cared for, you will get a car you can enjoy, drive year round and get your $$$ worth. On either one, just ge sure to keep up with the maintenance. No matter what anyone says, if you keep up the routine maintenance, the car will be utterly reliable. All my cars have been daily drivers. More $$$ for gas but what a way to go.
Best of luck,
09-03-2010, 07:30 AM
#35
Drifting
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: an unnatural suburban habitat
Posts: 2,902
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I wouldn't touch a high mile '93 unless I had plans to rebuild the engine with Greg Brown.
'88 for me! Think how you could own and drive the '88 for the next 20 years... Who cares how driving it takes the value down. The GTS probably has more than a few stone chips and would need some paint work. The '88 with original single stage paint would be very durable.
The best deal in a 928 is a good condition one.
'88 for me! Think how you could own and drive the '88 for the next 20 years... Who cares how driving it takes the value down. The GTS probably has more than a few stone chips and would need some paint work. The '88 with original single stage paint would be very durable.
The best deal in a 928 is a good condition one.
09-03-2010, 08:04 AM
#36
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I wouldn't touch a high mile '93 unless I had plans to rebuild the engine with Greg Brown.
'88 for me! Think how you could own and drive the '88 for the next 20 years... Who cares how driving it takes the value down. The GTS probably has more than a few stone chips and would need some paint work. The '88 with original single stage paint would be very durable.
The best deal in a 928 is a good condition one.
'88 for me! Think how you could own and drive the '88 for the next 20 years... Who cares how driving it takes the value down. The GTS probably has more than a few stone chips and would need some paint work. The '88 with original single stage paint would be very durable.
The best deal in a 928 is a good condition one.
09-03-2010, 10:02 AM
#37
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Lillington, NC
Posts: 2,742
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
But when is a car like a 928 considered high miles? That one would take a 30 page thread!! Rob Edwards can tell you what a 5.4L sounds like when it grenades on the way home after being purchased, but that car was tracked. On the other hand, Alan can tell you that his has well over 100k miles and doesn't need a rebuild (not sure about track history on Alan's car). My GTS has 49k miles (had 42k when I bought it), and I would love to rebuild it to address the mystery rod issue, but I don't track my car nor do I drive it like I stole it, and it runs so perfect that I can't justify the cost.
That ebay '93 GTS would need a few things, IMO. The SharkVent from 928 Specialists because it works and helps reduce oil consumption, and that cell phone armrest console would have to be replaced with one of Paul Champagne's extended height consoles. Also the shifter leather looks a little worn in the picture, but that is an easy fix with Paul Champagne. The stone chips may have to be addressed, depending on how bad they are. If you plan on keeping the car long term, why not get it completely painted and remove the rub strips, I know that is expensive, but a 5-spd GTS is one of the investment 928's. I put $1500 into a repaint of the nose and driver side fender on my GTS after purchase due to chips and license plate bracket holes. The shop I used matched the color and even orange peel of the factory paint, but they specialize in classic car restoration, not just bent out the dents, paste over it with bondo, then shoot it with whatever color they have that is close enough to get it out the door.
Based on maintenance, who knows what it would need as far as TB/WP, rack, shocks, clutch, A/C, etc. But the owner does have 15 years of service records to prove what has been done, so maybe those items were already replaced.
That ebay '93 GTS would need a few things, IMO. The SharkVent from 928 Specialists because it works and helps reduce oil consumption, and that cell phone armrest console would have to be replaced with one of Paul Champagne's extended height consoles. Also the shifter leather looks a little worn in the picture, but that is an easy fix with Paul Champagne. The stone chips may have to be addressed, depending on how bad they are. If you plan on keeping the car long term, why not get it completely painted and remove the rub strips, I know that is expensive, but a 5-spd GTS is one of the investment 928's. I put $1500 into a repaint of the nose and driver side fender on my GTS after purchase due to chips and license plate bracket holes. The shop I used matched the color and even orange peel of the factory paint, but they specialize in classic car restoration, not just bent out the dents, paste over it with bondo, then shoot it with whatever color they have that is close enough to get it out the door.
Based on maintenance, who knows what it would need as far as TB/WP, rack, shocks, clutch, A/C, etc. But the owner does have 15 years of service records to prove what has been done, so maybe those items were already replaced.
09-03-2010, 10:51 AM
#41
Advanced
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Estevan Saskatchewan
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have never driven a GTS, I would love to though just as it is the pinacle of the best car ever made in my opinion.
My only complaint about the GTS is the rear fenders....I just think they look out of place on the sleek body of a 928. Just my opinion! The mirrors, painted sploiler and wheels are much better on the GTS over previous 928's. Just could never get my head around the fenders.
I think these two cars are a wash, it's just got to come down your personal preference....either car will put a BIG smile on your face!!
My only complaint about the GTS is the rear fenders....I just think they look out of place on the sleek body of a 928. Just my opinion! The mirrors, painted sploiler and wheels are much better on the GTS over previous 928's. Just could never get my head around the fenders.
I think these two cars are a wash, it's just got to come down your personal preference....either car will put a BIG smile on your face!!
09-03-2010, 02:55 PM
#43
Drifting
Vehicle condition has so much to do with my buying decisions. I prefer medium to higher mileage in really nice condition over paying a premium for low miles, but that’s just me.
I also like getting most bang for my buck and I don’t see that happening with a GTS 5 speed. Because they are so rare, there is a premium tied to them. Some like to pay the premium to drive a highly performing rare car… that’s cool.
I’d prefer to take the savings and blow it on maintenance and modifications why I drive the **** out of it. I’d feel guilty thrashing a GTS the way I do my S4. So it really comes down to your taste and priorities.
Like someone already mentioned, either on will put a smile on your face.
I also like getting most bang for my buck and I don’t see that happening with a GTS 5 speed. Because they are so rare, there is a premium tied to them. Some like to pay the premium to drive a highly performing rare car… that’s cool.
I’d prefer to take the savings and blow it on maintenance and modifications why I drive the **** out of it. I’d feel guilty thrashing a GTS the way I do my S4. So it really comes down to your taste and priorities.
Like someone already mentioned, either on will put a smile on your face.
09-03-2010, 03:56 PM
#44
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
You shouldn't be paying a huge premium on a low mileage car unless the mechanical condition is commensorate with the cosmetic condition. If both are up to par it doesn't make any sense why it wouldn't be the preferred car unless its not affordable.
09-03-2010, 04:27 PM
#45
Rennlist Member
Doesn't a GTS carry a bit of concern for the engine reliability? especially if looking to eventually add mods? Seems necessary to account for some initial helper-mod requirements to keep the engine happy.
True, age of a non-driven car means replacement of hardened/dried items, but once those are done, you have a bullet proof engine with no miles.
Price of the '88 a bit lower/reasonable and it seems like the better vehicle...to drive forever.
Bottom line is which one gets you excited when you see it, sit in it and drive it. That's the one you want.
Sure, consider if you'll get your $$ back if you need to get out of it in a year, but otherwise don't consider value as a reason for choice - value will get addressed when looking at initial purchase maintenance expectations.
I'd take the rare GTS in a heartbeat.
True, age of a non-driven car means replacement of hardened/dried items, but once those are done, you have a bullet proof engine with no miles.
Price of the '88 a bit lower/reasonable and it seems like the better vehicle...to drive forever.
Bottom line is which one gets you excited when you see it, sit in it and drive it. That's the one you want.
Sure, consider if you'll get your $$ back if you need to get out of it in a year, but otherwise don't consider value as a reason for choice - value will get addressed when looking at initial purchase maintenance expectations.
I'd take the rare GTS in a heartbeat.