RESTORE/UPGRADE S4 TO IMPROVED/LARGER BRAKES
07-22-2010, 02:39 PM
#31
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07-22-2010, 02:43 PM
#32
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Frank
07-22-2010, 02:46 PM
#33
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Frank
07-22-2010, 02:52 PM
#34
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its not a track car, so you are doing it for bling factor. you might be going a little faster and might want better feel, so the larger diameter rotor is the way to go. you can do this with stock calipers, WHICH by the way, is the same size that most of the top exotic cars, and many race cars use. (ie stoptech ST40s use the same pad as the S4 caliper and that is used on many pro race cars) the diameter is what sucks on the S4, and that is an easy fix as was mentioned. spacers (cheap) and grinding a little on the ends of the caliper to accept the larger diameter rotor.
I plan to read your thread on doing this...might be an option for me to consider....
brake fluid. just use super blue and dont give it too much though. I have NO braking issues and never had with the s4 and stock ventilation and cooling. just recently put on stainless lines, as my rubber ones blew a hole and almost or could have cost me the car. (too old).
Pardon my ignorance but what do you mean by "don't give it too much"?
Also, are there differences in quality of SS lines? Cause there seems to be differences in the pricing of them from the vendors.
drilled vs slotted vs solid. Ive done all 3. slotted will work near best, because the holed rotors crack, during track use. however, if you dont track it, holed is best and look the best in my opinion. solids work find and Im using them now, as I cant find GTS or 964Turbo rotors that have slots. another nice thing, the rotors are cheap. actually , im using someone elses used rotors that I turned. they are the longest living rotors Ive used to date. no cracking or warping after almost a full season of racing.
I plan to read your thread on doing this...might be an option for me to consider....
brake fluid. just use super blue and dont give it too much though. I have NO braking issues and never had with the s4 and stock ventilation and cooling. just recently put on stainless lines, as my rubber ones blew a hole and almost or could have cost me the car. (too old).
Pardon my ignorance but what do you mean by "don't give it too much"?
Also, are there differences in quality of SS lines? Cause there seems to be differences in the pricing of them from the vendors.
drilled vs slotted vs solid. Ive done all 3. slotted will work near best, because the holed rotors crack, during track use. however, if you dont track it, holed is best and look the best in my opinion. solids work find and Im using them now, as I cant find GTS or 964Turbo rotors that have slots. another nice thing, the rotors are cheap. actually , im using someone elses used rotors that I turned. they are the longest living rotors Ive used to date. no cracking or warping after almost a full season of racing.
07-22-2010, 03:07 PM
#35
Drifting
Yep. Mintex pads are awful for performance driving (speaking from experience).
07-22-2010, 03:19 PM
#36
Nordschleife Master
Agree on the mintex. It is likely that they were the source of the fade entirely.
Frank,
DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 are 2 different ratings.
Do NOT use a DOT 5 fluid in this system unless you are using all BRAND new seals.
DOT 5.1 however is compatible and safe in the system.
I understand the bling factor but the $$$ to do it is not worth it.
If you want the larger go with the GTS sized rotors and space out the caliper like MK
As well I have a full S4 suspension package I could sell if you haven't yet got it.
Greg,
the cooling with stock items is minimal at best. It gets much worse the lower you get the car.
There is tons you can do with a welder and some tubing if you add a hole to the front bumper. If unwilling to modify the front bumper then you need to make a custom scoop to get air from a lower point. By this I mean below the front spoiler. It then needs to be directed up and into the center of the rotor.
As well I know that you are well aware, but for those not make sure you have the left rotor on the left side and visa versa!! This will drastically make the problem worse!
Frank,
DOT 5 and DOT 5.1 are 2 different ratings.
Do NOT use a DOT 5 fluid in this system unless you are using all BRAND new seals.
DOT 5.1 however is compatible and safe in the system.
I understand the bling factor but the $$$ to do it is not worth it.
If you want the larger go with the GTS sized rotors and space out the caliper like MK
As well I have a full S4 suspension package I could sell if you haven't yet got it.
Greg,
the cooling with stock items is minimal at best. It gets much worse the lower you get the car.
There is tons you can do with a welder and some tubing if you add a hole to the front bumper. If unwilling to modify the front bumper then you need to make a custom scoop to get air from a lower point. By this I mean below the front spoiler. It then needs to be directed up and into the center of the rotor.
As well I know that you are well aware, but for those not make sure you have the left rotor on the left side and visa versa!! This will drastically make the problem worse!
07-22-2010, 06:28 PM
#37
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[QUOTE=Lizard931;7754873]....As well I have a full S4 suspension package I could sell if you haven't yet got it.
Colin, that will be my next thread to focus on after I get passed brakes
Frank
Colin, that will be my next thread to focus on after I get passed brakes
Frank
07-22-2010, 06:40 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
we have some REAL tough roads in the mountains of california. never can i even had a hint of a problem. On the race track, conditions are radically more demanding. However, dragging brakes can boil fluid on and off the track, so no system is bulletproof. Is up to the user to use good braking technique, always.
I guess you would have to drive the road we were on to know what it was like, pretty much corner into a corner, second gear at most, not really going fast, but a lot of hard acceleration and heavy braking.
I suspect that your road courses are done at a MUCH higher speed.
I really think that 180 in North Georgia is better than the Dragon.
I suspect that your road courses are done at a MUCH higher speed.
I really think that 180 in North Georgia is better than the Dragon.
07-22-2010, 06:45 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
no problem. The mod is a good one. wish I did it a few years ago!
anyway, what I was trying to say, was, not to give the fluid thing too much "Thought".
as far as stainless lines, I would pick one that are professionally assembled. I dont know much about them, but the ones from Anderson seem to be pretty good and i think they are good quality too.
as a note, that I always mention in this discussion, Anderson also uses the F50 calipers, which use a pad not much different than the s4, and the calipers are near the same size. the big difference is the rotor diameter. I believe he is using pizza sized rotors now. 14" I think for the last few years along with Joe Fan. Im at the GTS size now, which is near 13", but would certainly look at 13.5" rotors if they came with the right offset for the S4. once we get custom hats made, we can get some rotor outers in most any diameter. that would be cool.
mk
anyway, what I was trying to say, was, not to give the fluid thing too much "Thought".
as far as stainless lines, I would pick one that are professionally assembled. I dont know much about them, but the ones from Anderson seem to be pretty good and i think they are good quality too.
as a note, that I always mention in this discussion, Anderson also uses the F50 calipers, which use a pad not much different than the s4, and the calipers are near the same size. the big difference is the rotor diameter. I believe he is using pizza sized rotors now. 14" I think for the last few years along with Joe Fan. Im at the GTS size now, which is near 13", but would certainly look at 13.5" rotors if they came with the right offset for the S4. once we get custom hats made, we can get some rotor outers in most any diameter. that would be cool.
mk
07-22-2010, 09:56 PM
#40
Rennlist Member
I had brake fade on my 90 GT and tried just about everything. Ended up with pagid blues and slotted cryotempered rotors for best results, but still got pretty hot. With the Pagid blues the first stop sign leaving my neighborhood had to be taken by starting the brake about half a block from the corner. Then they were good to go.
On my GTS I haven't gotten brake fade yet, but I have melted the pad wear sensors. I am using EBC Yellows and stock rotors.
On my GTS I haven't gotten brake fade yet, but I have melted the pad wear sensors. I am using EBC Yellows and stock rotors.
07-22-2010, 10:14 PM
#41
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we have some REAL tough roads in the mountains of california. never can i even had a hint of a problem. On the race track, conditions are radically more demanding. However, dragging brakes can boil fluid on and off the track, so no system is bulletproof. Is up to the user to use good braking technique, always.
I am sure you have tough roads in CA, I was trying to make the point this is a good one also, and like i said, better than the Dragon, which is also a good road.
07-22-2010, 11:31 PM
#42
Race Car
Turn the wheel slightly on your car, then look at how much tire you can see through your brake duct. When hard braking comes into play, we need some straights to cool or we start cooking the brakes.
The real ticket would be a mini eRam set up to force brake airflow while turning.
Thicker, newer brake pads should make a sizeable difference. I looked at getting titanium heat shield plates, but, well, just looked. I think air flow is the most important issue.
07-22-2010, 11:37 PM
#43
Race Car
07-22-2010, 11:41 PM
#44
Race Car
Mintex pads can be wasted to nothing in one day. For performance driving, they should be viewed as disposable, cardboard, break pad replicas.
07-22-2010, 11:53 PM
#45
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Yep. Prolly wore them down to less than 1/8" and then with all the turns, and the resulting lack of air flow through the brake ducts, the thin brake pad provided too little insulation and heat saturated the calipers.
Turn the wheel slightly on your car, then look at how much tire you can see through your brake duct. When hard braking comes into play, we need some straights to cool or we start cooking the brakes.
The real ticket would be a mini eRam set up to force brake airflow while turning.
Thicker, newer brake pads should make a sizeable difference. I looked at getting titanium heat shield plates, but, well, just looked. I think air flow is the most important issue.
Turn the wheel slightly on your car, then look at how much tire you can see through your brake duct. When hard braking comes into play, we need some straights to cool or we start cooking the brakes.
The real ticket would be a mini eRam set up to force brake airflow while turning.
Thicker, newer brake pads should make a sizeable difference. I looked at getting titanium heat shield plates, but, well, just looked. I think air flow is the most important issue.
I know how much meat was on the pads before the drive, and I have put very few miles on it since, so I will check the pads, that should answer one question.
