FLUSH Center Console Development
08-06-2010, 10:30 PM
#121
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I am away from home and the shop for three days of continuing "machine trades" education, so I will not be posting anything about progress on the flush conversion until after I get back. This training is boring, but on the way here and during the first half day of training I have been able to develop some minor modifications in the upper insert component of the conversion, but still using the original components in the conversion. When I get home and can make further hands-on development of the new ideas, I'll pass some of it along. It will help solve one of the minor troubling aspects of what I have originally had in mind, particualrly in relation to the placement of the HVAC and AC/LOCK panel at the bottom of the upper insert. I think some of you will like what I think I have come up with.
Jerry Feather
Jerry Feather
08-08-2010, 06:36 PM
#122
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One of the things I thought I would try to accomplish in the FLUSH Console System was to try to eliminate some of the seams, joints, and gaps that are inherent in doing this conversion as a one-off using the original components and modifying the original trim pieces.
One of the places I had not yet been able to accomplish that has to do with relocating the HVAC control head and the AC/lock panel to below the location for the new NAV unit. In fact, as I have been developing this System I find that I have been in effect adding another joint.
In the original console the HVAC and AC/lock panels are nested together in such a way as to effectively "hide" their joint; and the bottom edge of the AC/lock panel is rounded inward and simply "dies" into the original single DIN opening. Therefore that joint is also minimized and is still only one joint.
By moving these two nested compontnts to below the new double DIN space, I found that they can be nested together a tiny bit more tightly in front by angling their respective bodies slightly apart in back with a small plastic spacer, perhaps, and fabricating their mounting location to accomodate this angle. In addition, because of the curvature at the lower end of the upper insert, this new nesting configuration fits much better in regard to the face of the insert.
By virtrue of the nature of the System I am developing there is a joint between the lower trim piece and the upper insert. That does not add a joint since there alreeady is one between the original clock panel and the single DIN location for the radio. From a joint reduction standpoint the ideal way to relocate the two subject items would be to place them together at the bottom of the new upper insert is such a way that the bottom edge or surface of the AC/lock panel becomes the bottom edge of the upper insert. The problem with that is that I have a strong reluctance to remove the bottom edge, rim or flange to the upper insert, mainly from a strength and integrity standpoint.
Part II to follow:
One of the places I had not yet been able to accomplish that has to do with relocating the HVAC control head and the AC/lock panel to below the location for the new NAV unit. In fact, as I have been developing this System I find that I have been in effect adding another joint.
In the original console the HVAC and AC/lock panels are nested together in such a way as to effectively "hide" their joint; and the bottom edge of the AC/lock panel is rounded inward and simply "dies" into the original single DIN opening. Therefore that joint is also minimized and is still only one joint.
By moving these two nested compontnts to below the new double DIN space, I found that they can be nested together a tiny bit more tightly in front by angling their respective bodies slightly apart in back with a small plastic spacer, perhaps, and fabricating their mounting location to accomodate this angle. In addition, because of the curvature at the lower end of the upper insert, this new nesting configuration fits much better in regard to the face of the insert.
By virtrue of the nature of the System I am developing there is a joint between the lower trim piece and the upper insert. That does not add a joint since there alreeady is one between the original clock panel and the single DIN location for the radio. From a joint reduction standpoint the ideal way to relocate the two subject items would be to place them together at the bottom of the new upper insert is such a way that the bottom edge or surface of the AC/lock panel becomes the bottom edge of the upper insert. The problem with that is that I have a strong reluctance to remove the bottom edge, rim or flange to the upper insert, mainly from a strength and integrity standpoint.
Part II to follow:
08-08-2010, 06:52 PM
#123
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Thread Starter
Part II:
If the upper insert was intended solely as a contiguous trim piece, I suppose cutting the botton out would be ok. However, since I am designing this piece to both mount these two pieces and the upper air vent and to end up trimming around all of what is in the upper insert area, I feel the the strength and rigidity of this insert are important.
In addition, esthetics comes into play for me and I have a strong desire to have at least a narrow strip of trim going across the lower edge of the upper insert. That is also reflected in the thin strip of trim that I am putting across the top of this upper insert above the air vent grill which does not exist in the original installation.
It may be that I am doing all of this emphasis on trim, relief, or reveal simply as a means to place more emphasis on what I am creating, but I guess I just can't help myself. I think it is going to look the way I want it t o look in the end.
This brings me to the real point of this multi-part post, and that is to tell about the idea I recently had about what to actually do at the bottom of the upper insert.
The thing that has been bothering me about this relocation of these two components is that I simply don't like the shape of the face of the AC/lock panel, in spite of the careful way it nests up to the bottom of the HVAC control panel face.
You will notice that the face of the HVAC is a nice rectangle with rounded corners. When I finish with the air vent grill above, it is going to have a very similar shape but and little narrower than the original.
I occurs to me that the best appearance of the upper insert would be to mount the air vent grill above with a nice consistent reveal of trim around it and then do the same thing with the HVAC below the double DIN. Then I had to ponder what to do with the little narrower AC/lock panel.
More in Part III to follow.
If the upper insert was intended solely as a contiguous trim piece, I suppose cutting the botton out would be ok. However, since I am designing this piece to both mount these two pieces and the upper air vent and to end up trimming around all of what is in the upper insert area, I feel the the strength and rigidity of this insert are important.
In addition, esthetics comes into play for me and I have a strong desire to have at least a narrow strip of trim going across the lower edge of the upper insert. That is also reflected in the thin strip of trim that I am putting across the top of this upper insert above the air vent grill which does not exist in the original installation.
It may be that I am doing all of this emphasis on trim, relief, or reveal simply as a means to place more emphasis on what I am creating, but I guess I just can't help myself. I think it is going to look the way I want it t o look in the end.
This brings me to the real point of this multi-part post, and that is to tell about the idea I recently had about what to actually do at the bottom of the upper insert.
The thing that has been bothering me about this relocation of these two components is that I simply don't like the shape of the face of the AC/lock panel, in spite of the careful way it nests up to the bottom of the HVAC control panel face.
You will notice that the face of the HVAC is a nice rectangle with rounded corners. When I finish with the air vent grill above, it is going to have a very similar shape but and little narrower than the original.
I occurs to me that the best appearance of the upper insert would be to mount the air vent grill above with a nice consistent reveal of trim around it and then do the same thing with the HVAC below the double DIN. Then I had to ponder what to do with the little narrower AC/lock panel.
More in Part III to follow.
08-08-2010, 07:08 PM
#125
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Thread Starter
Part III:
I found that the face of the AC/lock panel can be removed by taking out four tiny screws in the back. When I do so I discovered that the AC switch on the left is essentially completely seperate from the the rest of the panel functions at least from an electrical standpoint.
I also discovered that there are actually three components of what is left--the hazard/failure switch/lite on th left, the door lock switch/lite on the right, and, to my surprise, a seat belt warning lite/indication in between, which I didn't realize was even there. I always wondered why there was sucn an apparent large blank black space in that location.
My first thought, before finding the seat belt indicator, was that this little panel might be mounted in the upper insert without its face plate. The discovery of the seat belt indicator sort of interferred with that approach. Another problem I saw was the the depth of the hazard and lock lites/switches was possibly too shallow to work effectively if recessed behind one layer of plastic and possibly two layers of leather covering.
In any case, I really like this new idea of putting this panel at the bottom of the upper insert, and without its face plate. I'm going to try to mock this up in some way to see just how it might work. I think I will try to form or find some kind of lenses for the seat belt lites to show through and refine the two other lite/switch openings so that they remain visible and functional even though they are going to end up slightly recessed when I do it.
How I might be able to do it in Part IV:
I found that the face of the AC/lock panel can be removed by taking out four tiny screws in the back. When I do so I discovered that the AC switch on the left is essentially completely seperate from the the rest of the panel functions at least from an electrical standpoint.
I also discovered that there are actually three components of what is left--the hazard/failure switch/lite on th left, the door lock switch/lite on the right, and, to my surprise, a seat belt warning lite/indication in between, which I didn't realize was even there. I always wondered why there was sucn an apparent large blank black space in that location.
My first thought, before finding the seat belt indicator, was that this little panel might be mounted in the upper insert without its face plate. The discovery of the seat belt indicator sort of interferred with that approach. Another problem I saw was the the depth of the hazard and lock lites/switches was possibly too shallow to work effectively if recessed behind one layer of plastic and possibly two layers of leather covering.
In any case, I really like this new idea of putting this panel at the bottom of the upper insert, and without its face plate. I'm going to try to mock this up in some way to see just how it might work. I think I will try to form or find some kind of lenses for the seat belt lites to show through and refine the two other lite/switch openings so that they remain visible and functional even though they are going to end up slightly recessed when I do it.
How I might be able to do it in Part IV:
08-08-2010, 07:18 PM
#126
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Thread Starter
Part IV:
Actually, the more I think about this new idea, the more it develops. One thought I had was to skive the leather some in this area of the insert in order to reduce the impact of the thickness and to enhanse the formability of the leather into and around the openings for the controls; then I considered grinding the underside of the plastic in this area, which is fairly well curved, to a flat surface which will both provide a flat surface for mounting and to add to the need for thinness here; and, finally, if more seems to be needed I might make a little set of forming dies and with them and a heat gun, form a kind of thumbnail indent at the the left and right sides of each of the two lite/switches, not including the AC switch, which protrudes sufficiently, both activated and deactivated, to not need depth minimization.,
Boy, is that a mouthfull!!
End of this discussioin. More later about some other general considerations.
Jerry Feather
Actually, the more I think about this new idea, the more it develops. One thought I had was to skive the leather some in this area of the insert in order to reduce the impact of the thickness and to enhanse the formability of the leather into and around the openings for the controls; then I considered grinding the underside of the plastic in this area, which is fairly well curved, to a flat surface which will both provide a flat surface for mounting and to add to the need for thinness here; and, finally, if more seems to be needed I might make a little set of forming dies and with them and a heat gun, form a kind of thumbnail indent at the the left and right sides of each of the two lite/switches, not including the AC switch, which protrudes sufficiently, both activated and deactivated, to not need depth minimization.,
Boy, is that a mouthfull!!
End of this discussioin. More later about some other general considerations.
Jerry Feather
08-08-2010, 07:47 PM
#127
that is a lot of info to think about for sure! The only issue i can see is moving the AC/Heater control head much farther then where it is now due to vacuum and mechanical link to the vent flap. but i love the idea of the slight "tilt" where the AC button- seat belt light, and the control head go. :-)
08-08-2010, 07:54 PM
#128
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Thread Starter
Ducman, You mentioned that before about vacuum lines and mechanical linkage to the HVAC control head. However, on the ones I have for the later cars, and I am not sure how later, there are only electrical connections--no vacuum lines or mechanical connections.
If there are such on the earlier control heads, that may very well be a limitation of this System that I am developing.
Are there such things on the earlier control heads? How early are we talking about? Does anyone know?
Jerry Feather
If there are such on the earlier control heads, that may very well be a limitation of this System that I am developing.
Are there such things on the earlier control heads? How early are we talking about? Does anyone know?
Jerry Feather
08-08-2010, 08:08 PM
#129
mine is an 81, and i no it does for sure. you do have some play in it. im sure splicing in the lines to make them longer would work, along with the mech cable. sorry if i double posted... :-(
08-08-2010, 08:20 PM
#130
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The vaccum lines go into the acuators located behind the right side panel. Then electrical connections come off of that into the head unit. I don't think any years have the vacuum lines go directly into the head unit.
08-08-2010, 08:52 PM
#132
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Thread Starter
Those might be on the back side of something, but it does not look to me like the back side of the control head that I am going to move to the lower part of th center console.
08-08-2010, 09:56 PM
#134
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Thread Starter
In case you couldn't notice, the foregoing four part post(s) was/were part of the result of what I was writing in the recent contunuing education I previously mentioned which I am sure others thought was my taking of feverish notes about what was being presented, but which in fact was what I was writing about this project while absorbing what was being taught with the other side of my brain. I seem to get the most out of things when they are done in conjunction with something else.
Jerry Feather
Jerry Feather
08-08-2010, 10:20 PM
#135
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Thread Starter
The rest of what I had to write about this during the recent training is:
When I developed the tooling to form the lower trim piece I focused primarily on having the piece form to match very closely to the lower surface of the console recess. This surface is very consistent in terms of its part in defining the groove or sideways recess that the original trim piece snaps into and which the corresponding "snap material" on this new trim piece will, and does, snap into.
There is a significant difference found in the botton surface of the console recess as found in the part of the sonsole where the new upper insert will reside. In this upper area there is a continuation of the snap-in sideways recess, but for the most part here there is an almost total lack of consistent definition of the lower surface.
As a result of this I have found myself developing the tooling to form the upper insert "down to" a more or less hypothetical place where I think the lower surface will be built up to, particularly in developing the mounting for the double DIN Nav units we all anticipate installing in this conversion. In doing so I am trying to end up with a continuation of the same width of sideways recess as in the lower trim area and the corresponding same width of snap-in part of the upper insert after the additional material is glued onto the sides of the upper insert. By width I mean from top to bottom and not from side to side, which in this case would be thickness.
One of the objectives in building up the lower surface of the central recess of the upper console will also include replacement of the crossways rigidity that is going to be removed in relocating the air vent and other upper components.
One of the replacements will be a fairly heavy aluminum sheet item made the fit into the upper original mounting space for the HVAC and AC/lock panels. It will be made of 090 sheet and made to fill the deepest part of the recess surface including perhaps screwing into the original screw holes, or what is left of them and incorporating a crossmember, bent at a right angle downward that essentially replaces the botton plastic crossmember part of the upper air vent that is going to get cut out with relocating of the vent to the insert.
Below that there will be some additional crossmember support, but which will be made up of the rack or cage that I am going to develop to mount the NAV units in the console. More about that when I get closer to it.
Jerry Feather
When I developed the tooling to form the lower trim piece I focused primarily on having the piece form to match very closely to the lower surface of the console recess. This surface is very consistent in terms of its part in defining the groove or sideways recess that the original trim piece snaps into and which the corresponding "snap material" on this new trim piece will, and does, snap into.
There is a significant difference found in the botton surface of the console recess as found in the part of the sonsole where the new upper insert will reside. In this upper area there is a continuation of the snap-in sideways recess, but for the most part here there is an almost total lack of consistent definition of the lower surface.
As a result of this I have found myself developing the tooling to form the upper insert "down to" a more or less hypothetical place where I think the lower surface will be built up to, particularly in developing the mounting for the double DIN Nav units we all anticipate installing in this conversion. In doing so I am trying to end up with a continuation of the same width of sideways recess as in the lower trim area and the corresponding same width of snap-in part of the upper insert after the additional material is glued onto the sides of the upper insert. By width I mean from top to bottom and not from side to side, which in this case would be thickness.
One of the objectives in building up the lower surface of the central recess of the upper console will also include replacement of the crossways rigidity that is going to be removed in relocating the air vent and other upper components.
One of the replacements will be a fairly heavy aluminum sheet item made the fit into the upper original mounting space for the HVAC and AC/lock panels. It will be made of 090 sheet and made to fill the deepest part of the recess surface including perhaps screwing into the original screw holes, or what is left of them and incorporating a crossmember, bent at a right angle downward that essentially replaces the botton plastic crossmember part of the upper air vent that is going to get cut out with relocating of the vent to the insert.
Below that there will be some additional crossmember support, but which will be made up of the rack or cage that I am going to develop to mount the NAV units in the console. More about that when I get closer to it.
Jerry Feather
