FLUSH Center Console Development
07-29-2010, 11:19 AM
#61
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Work continues on the new upper forming machine. I have several of the members cut and trimmed to final length in the mill and quite a number of holes drilled and waiting to be tapped. All of that is not picture worthy at this point.
I am also continuing to work on the other machine to get it to form the sides of the lower trim piece to the right depth. What I find is that the center consoles I have to work with are not quite symetrical. The amount of recess on the left side of both of them is about a 16th of an inch less that on the right side; and, that is only in about one location That means that after I make the side forming members together, and the same, I have to continue to sand the left one down so both sides of the trim piece will hit the bottom on the console at the time the upper surface is flush on each side. I am just sneeking up on it right now; and I have my last effort at that in the machine right now that I set to cool when I finished up last night. I'll take it out and see how close I am at this point. I hope they used the same mold at the factory for the center console in the later cars.
When I get the body of the lower trim piece forming correctly, then I need to cut some 1/8th inch ABS in strips to glue along the bottom of each side to fit into the recesses that will be holding both of these elements in the console. That is the recess outward in the inside where the original trim pieces are held in.
Then I am going to cover one or more of these trim pieces with leather and mock up the shifter boots in them so you can get an idea of where this is going.
As to the clocks, I think what the options are going to be are as follows:
1. Put the small Infiniti clock in the auto trim piece just above and inline with the shifter.
2.Put the small I. clock in the auto shifter to the right side of the clock panel.
3.Put the larger Infiniti clock in the auto shifter in the right side of the clock panel (I think it is too large to go just above the shifter.)
4. Put any of the clock options in the 5-speed trim piece in the center or otherwise. including the original clock, if desired.
5. It might be possible to put the original (rectangluar) clock in the auto shifter trim piece, but only by cutting off the right hand wing in the back and putting it to the right side.
Jerry
I am also continuing to work on the other machine to get it to form the sides of the lower trim piece to the right depth. What I find is that the center consoles I have to work with are not quite symetrical. The amount of recess on the left side of both of them is about a 16th of an inch less that on the right side; and, that is only in about one location That means that after I make the side forming members together, and the same, I have to continue to sand the left one down so both sides of the trim piece will hit the bottom on the console at the time the upper surface is flush on each side. I am just sneeking up on it right now; and I have my last effort at that in the machine right now that I set to cool when I finished up last night. I'll take it out and see how close I am at this point. I hope they used the same mold at the factory for the center console in the later cars.
When I get the body of the lower trim piece forming correctly, then I need to cut some 1/8th inch ABS in strips to glue along the bottom of each side to fit into the recesses that will be holding both of these elements in the console. That is the recess outward in the inside where the original trim pieces are held in.
Then I am going to cover one or more of these trim pieces with leather and mock up the shifter boots in them so you can get an idea of where this is going.
As to the clocks, I think what the options are going to be are as follows:
1. Put the small Infiniti clock in the auto trim piece just above and inline with the shifter.
2.Put the small I. clock in the auto shifter to the right side of the clock panel.
3.Put the larger Infiniti clock in the auto shifter in the right side of the clock panel (I think it is too large to go just above the shifter.)
4. Put any of the clock options in the 5-speed trim piece in the center or otherwise. including the original clock, if desired.
5. It might be possible to put the original (rectangluar) clock in the auto shifter trim piece, but only by cutting off the right hand wing in the back and putting it to the right side.
Jerry
07-29-2010, 08:24 PM
#62
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I got off early today and got to work on our project quite a bit. I continue to adjust the forming machine for the lower trim piece and hope I have it there. I have another forming cooling as we talk and will check after supper to see how close I am to final on it. If not, I think one more time will havel it.
While I was waiting for the oven to heat up to forming temp. I worked on new machine and the male form plate for lthe upper insert. I have a couple of pictures of progress for you.
The first picture shows the pattern I made for the corners of the upper insert as it is clamped onto the form for marking.
The next two pictures show the whole new machine mocked-up sort of as it is developing.
Jerry
While I was waiting for the oven to heat up to forming temp. I worked on new machine and the male form plate for lthe upper insert. I have a couple of pictures of progress for you.
The first picture shows the pattern I made for the corners of the upper insert as it is clamped onto the form for marking.
The next two pictures show the whole new machine mocked-up sort of as it is developing.
Jerry
07-29-2010, 08:44 PM
#63
Nordschleife Master
Jerry, I have been following your development threads. Thank you so much for all of the detail and hard work.
Would you consider painting one of your test pieces in SEM or the like vinyl paint to see how it will match up with the console itself? I bet it would look good.
Would you consider painting one of your test pieces in SEM or the like vinyl paint to see how it will match up with the console itself? I bet it would look good.
07-29-2010, 10:29 PM
#64
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Hi Michael. The texture is off maybe more than a little bit, but these could be painted with any kind of plastic or vinyl paint. However, I am making them slightly undersized to allow for covering with leather. One thought I had a while back was to form some in the original 1/8 inch plastic that I started with to take up for the lack of leather if anyone wanted to do it that way, Then only problem is there is some loss of detail with the heavier plastic. Not bad, but some. I think that is still a possiblilty.
Jerry
Jerry
07-29-2010, 10:38 PM
#65
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
What I did was take the last formed item out of the machine and trim it up to see how it fits. I think it is just about right. Then I took the next step with it and glued some strips of plastic along the bottom edge for the locking part in the channels in the console. Here are a couple of pictures of the clamped-up trim piece waithing for the ABS glue to cure.
It takes a lot of clamps because I am glueing a straight strip of plastic in a curved recess, and the plastic is pretty still.
Jerry
It takes a lot of clamps because I am glueing a straight strip of plastic in a curved recess, and the plastic is pretty still.
Jerry
07-30-2010, 11:48 AM
#67
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
My snap-in-the-groove method seems to work. I even hit the width of the snap material on the first try. Now I can cut up some more material while the bandsaw is set up to that width and have that out of the way for a while.
Here are a couple of pictures of the lower trim piece in place without the need for me to hold it where it goes to take a picture.
The one thing that it shows I will need is another snap-in piece to hold the trailing edge down and flat since it is being squeezed upward a bit in place without it.
Here are a couple of pictures of the lower trim piece in place without the need for me to hold it where it goes to take a picture.
The one thing that it shows I will need is another snap-in piece to hold the trailing edge down and flat since it is being squeezed upward a bit in place without it.
07-30-2010, 09:56 PM
#68
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
If you look at the second of the last pictures you might notice that the left edge of this trim piece is actually still a tiny bit above the edge of the console. I didn't notice that at first since I was so pleased with myself in finding that with the glue-on snap material it seemed to be snapping into place. Nevertheless, I took that member off the machine and took another few thousandths off of it in that area.
I also found that it actually is not snapping into the holding recess as well as I thought. It takes a little coaxing to get the snap material into the recess; so I adjusted my bandsaw guide and cut a bunch of material just about 25 thousandths narrower. I think that will do it.
I have another trim piece cooling in the machine now and later will take it out and see how much closer I have come. While doing all of that I also worked on the second machine some more. If I give you a picuture later you might not see much progress, but I did tap a lot of holes and have drillied a few more so the thing is coming into shape. In the morning I am going to get on it in ernest and hope to have it done tomorrow.
Jerry
I also found that it actually is not snapping into the holding recess as well as I thought. It takes a little coaxing to get the snap material into the recess; so I adjusted my bandsaw guide and cut a bunch of material just about 25 thousandths narrower. I think that will do it.
I have another trim piece cooling in the machine now and later will take it out and see how much closer I have come. While doing all of that I also worked on the second machine some more. If I give you a picuture later you might not see much progress, but I did tap a lot of holes and have drillied a few more so the thing is coming into shape. In the morning I am going to get on it in ernest and hope to have it done tomorrow.
Jerry
07-30-2010, 10:08 PM
#69
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
One of the things that you can't really see in the last two pictures is that when this trim piece is forced into the holding recess it is causing the trim piece to convex upward a little. I didn't plan on that, but don't think I am going to do anything about it. Actually I was recently observing the corresponding element in my wife's cadillac and was noticing that the console in that area was slightly convex upward. I was kind of wondering if I should be trying to have that kind of form in my lower trim piece, but decided that that was too much trouble.
However, since that seems to be what I have developed, I think I like it and will take credit for having designed that into the process from the inception. I think it looks pretty nice.
Jerry
However, since that seems to be what I have developed, I think I like it and will take credit for having designed that into the process from the inception. I think it looks pretty nice.
Jerry
07-30-2010, 10:41 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
There seems to be quite a number of members viewing this thread, so I suspect there is quite a bit of interest in what I am trying to develop. I suspect that up to this point what I have had to show you is not too different from what I did in the HOW TO thread on the development of the lower trim piece.
I kind of wonder if many of you are able to picture in your mind what I am developing for the upper ensert for this flush console conversion system that I am going to develop. I have pictures of what the machine to form the inserrt might look like, but I wonder is that is enough for you to form a mental picture of what it will look like.
What I have in mind is difficult to show you except in words since I cannot take my SD card out of my head and put it in the computer and show you the mental picutes that I have. The best I can do is try to tell you what it will look like in words; and I hope that that is not too much verbeage for most of you.
What the upper insert will look like is very similar to this lower trim piece. It will start out as a flat surface which has flanges about an inch and a half deep all around for reaching into the mounting recess of the original console. When the insert is finished it will simply end up as a trim piece for the mounting of the upper console items, but will also function as a mounting place for some of them. That's because much of this insert will be removed to provide space for the three basic elemnts it will contain.
I think the upper AC or air vent will be mounted on the new insert and so will the original HVAC controls. The Nav unit that might be installed will be mounted in the console in some kind of contraption that I will provide that both mounts the unit and beefs up the console in that area so it does not become too flexible after removing some of the origianl elements that are in the way of the new positions for stuff.
Again, I hope to have some of this new insert formed this weekend, so some pictures of that will help a lot, I think.
Jerry
I kind of wonder if many of you are able to picture in your mind what I am developing for the upper ensert for this flush console conversion system that I am going to develop. I have pictures of what the machine to form the inserrt might look like, but I wonder is that is enough for you to form a mental picture of what it will look like.
What I have in mind is difficult to show you except in words since I cannot take my SD card out of my head and put it in the computer and show you the mental picutes that I have. The best I can do is try to tell you what it will look like in words; and I hope that that is not too much verbeage for most of you.
What the upper insert will look like is very similar to this lower trim piece. It will start out as a flat surface which has flanges about an inch and a half deep all around for reaching into the mounting recess of the original console. When the insert is finished it will simply end up as a trim piece for the mounting of the upper console items, but will also function as a mounting place for some of them. That's because much of this insert will be removed to provide space for the three basic elemnts it will contain.
I think the upper AC or air vent will be mounted on the new insert and so will the original HVAC controls. The Nav unit that might be installed will be mounted in the console in some kind of contraption that I will provide that both mounts the unit and beefs up the console in that area so it does not become too flexible after removing some of the origianl elements that are in the way of the new positions for stuff.
Again, I hope to have some of this new insert formed this weekend, so some pictures of that will help a lot, I think.
Jerry
07-30-2010, 11:51 PM
#71
Rennlist Member
Actually, I think this is a really good idea, and you should take credit for it! Lots of center consoles in recent cars have this convexity to a greater or lesser degree, and I think it looks good.
One of the things that you can't really see in the last two pictures is that when this trim piece is forced into the holding recess it is causing the trim piece to convex upward a little. I didn't plan on that, but don't think I am going to do anything about it. Actually I was recently observing the corresponding element in my wife's cadillac and was noticing that the console in that area was slightly convex upward. I was kind of wondering if I should be trying to have that kind of form in my lower trim piece, but decided that that was too much trouble.
However, since that seems to be what I have developed, I think I like it and will take credit for having designed that into the process from the inception. I think it looks pretty nice.
Jerry
However, since that seems to be what I have developed, I think I like it and will take credit for having designed that into the process from the inception. I think it looks pretty nice.
Jerry
07-31-2010, 12:23 AM
#72
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Here is a picture of the second forming machine that I promised. It doesn't show a lot of progress, except there are a lot of holes here that I have tapped and some that I drilled and counter-bored to put this together. What you see in the first picture is the near completion of the plastic holding frame for this machine. The other pictures show the first machine in its unloaded form, and a close up of the forming member that I have been slowly grinding a little bit off of the get it to form that side of the trim piece like I want.
07-31-2010, 10:38 AM
#73
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I think today is going to be a big day because I expect to get the second forming machine done, at least up to the point of forming some plastic and then making final adjustments as I have been doing with the first machine. Right now I am over half way there and have the rest of it clearly in mind to complete without a hitch.
For those of you who have been watching this thread closely you might get some comfort in knowing that this whole project has pretty well come into focus for me, finally. What I have been dealing with here is pretty well divided into what you might think of a three phases. This first phase I am working in has to do with the development of the method and machines needed to for the two main components of this FLUSH console conversion.
Actually, I am a little bit into the second phase also with the forming, trimming, and lay-up of the lower trim piece. That phase involves just that, but with both components. In the second phase I will be developing some tooling that will be useful in trimming these components and I'll be adding some plastic here and there both to stiffen and strengthen the components, especially the upper insert, and I'll be making the cut-outs for the console items to be placed.
Also in this phase I will be developing some additional mounting pieces, especially for the centerpiece NAV unit I am designing around. Included with that will be a cage of sorts that will be installed into the console to hang the NAV unit in. With it will be a small bracket of two that will both fill in some voids in the plastic and add some lateral strength in the upper area where the plastic is going to be removed.
Another factor in this second phase will be the removal and relocation of the air vent from the top of the console to the top of the new insert. As soon as I get one of the new upper inserts formed to the right shape, at least in the upper area, I'll take my new coping saw and cut the vent out and start figuring out where and how to mount it in the insert.
The cage for the NAV unit and the little brackets to strengthen the upper console will be made out of aluminum since I am also proficient at sheet metal work and like to use aluminum where it is appropriate. These pieces will be screwed and/or glued into the console.
Finally, in the second phase, after the items are beefed up trimmed and ready to install, I'll cover them in leather.
The third and final phase of this project will be the installation of this system into a 928. Actually that is one where I am not so proficient, at least in regard to the electrical aspect of it. I can do the mechanical aspect of electrics, but am not too bright in understanding much about it. I may even have to gain some outside help in that phase of this project.
I'll let you know later about some progress today.
Jerry Feather
For those of you who have been watching this thread closely you might get some comfort in knowing that this whole project has pretty well come into focus for me, finally. What I have been dealing with here is pretty well divided into what you might think of a three phases. This first phase I am working in has to do with the development of the method and machines needed to for the two main components of this FLUSH console conversion.
Actually, I am a little bit into the second phase also with the forming, trimming, and lay-up of the lower trim piece. That phase involves just that, but with both components. In the second phase I will be developing some tooling that will be useful in trimming these components and I'll be adding some plastic here and there both to stiffen and strengthen the components, especially the upper insert, and I'll be making the cut-outs for the console items to be placed.
Also in this phase I will be developing some additional mounting pieces, especially for the centerpiece NAV unit I am designing around. Included with that will be a cage of sorts that will be installed into the console to hang the NAV unit in. With it will be a small bracket of two that will both fill in some voids in the plastic and add some lateral strength in the upper area where the plastic is going to be removed.
Another factor in this second phase will be the removal and relocation of the air vent from the top of the console to the top of the new insert. As soon as I get one of the new upper inserts formed to the right shape, at least in the upper area, I'll take my new coping saw and cut the vent out and start figuring out where and how to mount it in the insert.
The cage for the NAV unit and the little brackets to strengthen the upper console will be made out of aluminum since I am also proficient at sheet metal work and like to use aluminum where it is appropriate. These pieces will be screwed and/or glued into the console.
Finally, in the second phase, after the items are beefed up trimmed and ready to install, I'll cover them in leather.
The third and final phase of this project will be the installation of this system into a 928. Actually that is one where I am not so proficient, at least in regard to the electrical aspect of it. I can do the mechanical aspect of electrics, but am not too bright in understanding much about it. I may even have to gain some outside help in that phase of this project.
I'll let you know later about some progress today.
Jerry Feather
07-31-2010, 06:06 PM
#74
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
I got started fairly early this morning when it wasn't too hot out in the shop. It did get hot though and with the oven going and not much breeze it was really a sweat shop. I did get quite a bit done although I am not yet finished with the machine for the upper insert. I still have two latches to make, two more of the plastic hold-down bars, two cross bars for the female forming members and the two side angle pieces to form the insert sides.
Here are a couple of pictures of the progress. One shows the machine in its present state and the other I have layed out some material that I'll be working up into the next several pieces. After I take a break and maybe even a little nap I might go out and try to get about six of the remailing pieces finished.
One thing that occurs to me is that I may not know enough yet to finish the two side angle forming pieces. What I need to know is just how deep to make them form; and before I can determine that I need to decide just how the NAV unit is going to be hung in the console and especially just how I am going to fill up some or all of the gap along the lower edge of the recesses in the inside of the console where this new insert will be locking in. I'll give that some more thought and then work on that before I make the side forming angles or at least finish the bottom edges of them.
Here are a couple of pictures of the progress. One shows the machine in its present state and the other I have layed out some material that I'll be working up into the next several pieces. After I take a break and maybe even a little nap I might go out and try to get about six of the remailing pieces finished.
One thing that occurs to me is that I may not know enough yet to finish the two side angle forming pieces. What I need to know is just how deep to make them form; and before I can determine that I need to decide just how the NAV unit is going to be hung in the console and especially just how I am going to fill up some or all of the gap along the lower edge of the recesses in the inside of the console where this new insert will be locking in. I'll give that some more thought and then work on that before I make the side forming angles or at least finish the bottom edges of them.
07-31-2010, 08:22 PM
#75
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Well, I skipped the nap and went out and fabricated another couple of parts of this next machine. I made the form that will describe the upper part of the upper insert and I formed the bar that will describe the lower end of it. I burned my fingers when I grabbed a hot tool and got a little piece of aluminum shaving blown into my eye, so I quit. I'll show you some pictures of what I did tomorrow.
Jerry Feather
Jerry Feather