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Twin Turbo 928 fixed and back out there terrorizing the streets!

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Twin Turbo 928 fixed and back out there terrorizing the streets!

 
Old 07-27-2018, 01:56 AM
  #2011  
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I think if you get a Pectel MQ12 you can use some fancy sensors from Omega to do advanced knock control strategy, or Cosworth will help you.

If you have a Motec 800 or better, then you can use the Motec knock controls but the hard part is programming the detection parameters. Motec may help you but..... they may send you to Sakata..

Ion sensors may be able to be used with the MQ12 as it has FGPA chips and can process the speed of the I/O items....

Just a thought....

BTW the MQ12 can handle 22k rpm
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Old 07-27-2018, 06:19 AM
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You mean FPGA as in field programmable gate arrays? That would mean going at it from first principles... note that I’m looking for a way to detect pre-ignition, not just spark knock.

Originally Posted by blau928 View Post
I think if you get a Pectel MQ12 you can use some fancy sensors from Omega to do advanced knock control strategy, or Cosworth will help you.

If you have a Motec 800 or better, then you can use the Motec knock controls but the hard part is programming the detection parameters. Motec may help you but..... they may send you to Sakata..

Ion sensors may be able to be used with the MQ12 as it has FGPA chips and can process the speed of the I/O items....

Just a thought....

BTW the MQ12 can handle 22k rpm
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Old 07-28-2018, 09:56 AM
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Default Who said that Porsche drivers had small ones?

Who said that Porsche drivers had small ones? The piston oil squirters from transaxle Porsches are about twice as big as those in BMWs. Maybe they meant the air cooled ones?


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Old 07-28-2018, 03:32 PM
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Default Squirters

The reason I’ve recently been more interested in pistons, piston oil squirters, ring widths, etc. is that we are pretty close to being able to run real test runs with this blue engine to learn at which rpm range John’s turbo system really wants make power efficiently. If the answer is low rpms, such as 3500-6300 rpm range, then the best engine solutions go one way. If the answer is high rpms, then the best engine solutions are completely different.

For example, if the answer is that the most efficient way to make power is high boost at 5800 rpm, then the engine needs to be developed to look even more like a diesel engine. In contrast, if the answer is lower boost at 7500 rpm, then the engine needs to be developed to look more like Mike Simard’s, Andy’s/Greg Brown’s, and Todd Tremel’s short runner higher rpm engines. The first option entails heavier pistons, thicker piston rings, taller ring lands, higher compression height, less concern about oil spray pattern, windage, and piston pumping pulses, and more of a chance to retain a wet sump oiling system, compared to the second option.

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Old 07-30-2018, 07:41 PM
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It’s all coming back to me now. Keyboard bullies from the 1st decade of the millennium return! Personal vendettas! Threatening offline communications! Drama!

Like I said - for everyone watching these are nasty, nasty people. And this one hunts people down on a personal level and sends them threatening letters because... well, that’s what they do.

And for the real kicker - this shows up at my workplace. Smooth. Awesome stuff.



And for those still watching: (From 2008, from a former moderator who serves some awesome bloody Mary:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ml#post5149825








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Old 07-30-2018, 08:38 PM
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I did, however, really like the car shaped paper clips.
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ptuomov
You mean FPGA as in field programmable gate arrays? That would mean going at it from first principles... note that I’m looking for a way to detect pre-ignition, not just spark knock.
Yes, that kind of FPGA...

You configure the I/o to read the sensor output and other conditions to determine and detect pre-ignition and make the adjustments before the detonation happens. It's a thin line, but the MQ12 is the only ecu short of the newer F1 type ecu's that has fgpa and can handle these interesting computational exercises.

As I mentioned prior, to use the Motec setup it also requires custom programming to get it to work properly. Which means talking to Motec to get a Motorsports engineering pro to do diagnostics and program the knock module and calibrate the integration of the ecu main/secondary tables and control functions. Motec doesn't offer direct support like this, but they will probably refer you to Sakata or Fischer or someone similar.....

Cosworth will also do the same remotely if you buy an MQ12 or whatever their newest ecu is from PI/Pectel. The MQ12 has telemetry as an option. As this is a maximum exercise theoretical construct, I'd suggest the MQ12 with calibration help directly from Cosworth.... Why muck around if you're going after maximum benefit.....?

Yes you can...
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:46 PM
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Danger!

Danger Will Robinson!

Streisand Effect Proximity Alert!
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Old 07-30-2018, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by blau928 View Post
Yes, that kind of FPGA...

You configure the I/o to read the sensor output and other conditions to determine and detect pre-ignition and make the adjustments before the detonation happens. It's a thin line, but the MQ12 is the only ecu short of the newer F1 type ecu's that has fgpa and can handle these interesting computational exercises.

As I mentioned prior, to use the Motec setup it also requires custom programming to get it to work properly. Which means talking to Motec to get a Motorsports engineering pro to do diagnostics and program the knock module and calibrate the integration of the ecu main/secondary tables and control functions. Motec doesn't offer direct support like this, but they will probably refer you to Sakata or Fischer or someone similar.....

Cosworth will also do the same remotely if you buy an MQ12 or whatever their newest ecu is from PI/Pectel. The MQ12 has telemetry as an option. As this is a maximum exercise theoretical construct, I'd suggest the MQ12 with calibration help directly from Cosworth.... Why muck around if you're going after maximum benefit.....?

Yes you can...
be a cossie customer
Let me get the LH 2.3 run first (with a huge help from UK, KY, and CH) and once that and hardware all in good running order, then I can ask another friend for pointers on FPGAs and whether that's even in the realm of possibility. He's trading stocks with FPGAs which are faster and less space consuming than general purpose chips for some particular tasks.

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Old 07-30-2018, 08:57 PM
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With regard to pre-detonation: what are the measurement data and devices? Vibration via the knock sensors? Differential temperature? Something else? Time constants of proposed measurement techniques vs required control time constant? Papers?
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Old 07-30-2018, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by worf928 View Post
With regard to pre-detonation: what are the measurement data and devices? Vibration via the knock sensors? Differential temperature? Something else? Time constants of proposed measurement techniques vs required control time constant? Papers?
It's either ion sensing from the spark plug or a dedicated cylinder pressure sensor:

https://www.sae.org/publications/tec.../2017-01-0792/

Way above my abilities to implement, for sure.

This is really only necessary for the race gas runs. As Jim Corenman noted in another thread, with pump gas pre-ignition leads to knock and the regular knock detection system can measure this.
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Old 07-31-2018, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by ptuomov
Let me get the LH 2.3 run first (with a huge help from UK, KY, and CH) and once that and hardware all in good running order, then I can ask another friend for pointers on FPGAs and whether that's even in the realm of possibility. He's trading stocks with FPGAs which are faster and less space consuming than general purpose chips for some particular tasks.
No worries..
Someone I know runs Flex Logic, interesting stuff....
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Old 07-31-2018, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by ptuomov
It's either ion sensing from the spark plug or a dedicated cylinder pressure sensor:

https://www.sae.org/publications/tec.../2017-01-0792/

Way above my abilities to implement, for sure.

This is really only necessary for the race gas runs. As Jim Corenman noted in another thread, with pump gas pre-ignition leads to knock and the regular knock detection system can measure this.
You can get all of these sensors from Omega.
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Old 07-31-2018, 11:31 PM
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In response to the non-technical content that in my opinion doesn't belong to the thread that is appearing and disappearing without any rhyme or reason that I can understand, I'm going to close the thread.
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