My son's 1980 repaint begins.
05-17-2010, 08:47 PM
#61
Drifting
Stephen, the problem with the stripes on the hood that you mention could have been caused by not enough overlap or insufficient volume. One of the other things that can produce those stripes is incorrect reducer. Use "cold" or even "normal" reducer on a warm day (anything over about 78 degrees) with only average or light humidity, and cold/normal reducer can flash in the time it takes the stuff to leave the gun and hit the body. This is known as "dry spray" because the paint is almost dry by the time it hits the car. If you're in an area that lost the Civil War, you should never waste money on cold reducer.
I also agree with Stephen that blocking epoxy sucks. Some epoxies do have a high enough solids content that they can be used as a high-build sanding primer, but you're going to kill yourself and go through a tremendous amount of sandpaper to do it. Using a dedicated sanding primer is much better.
Dean, when you reach the blocking stage of prep, I really recommend the durablock kit I mentioned elsewhere. It'll drive up your costs a bit, but it's money well spent.
I've got 3 paint guns. The first one I bought was a DeVilbiss Finishline from Eastwood. I bought it because it came with 1.3, 1.5, and 1.8 tips that could be quickly and easily changed. I also purchased an even larger 2.2 tip that was available then. The gun was also about $45 dollars less then it is now. In the end, I only used it for primer.
The second gun I bought was a Sata. It was the Sata KLC P. It's a specialty gun for sprayable polyester filler like Slick Sand. I used it and was happy with it, but overall, it was a waste of money. Had I just reduced the Slick Sand a little, I could have sprayed it through my DeVillbiss just fine.
The third gun I bought is where it pays to choose a good paint supplier. And let me talk about that for a minute. My local paint supplier deals in DuPont Chromasystem. It is just fine as a mid-field product. They can get ChromaPremier or Spies-Hecker products within a day or two, but their main offering is Chromasystem. I decided I was going to use Glasurit from BASF, because many reputable people said Porsche used Glasurit (sometimes) and that the top-shelf products from BASF (R-M, Diamont, Glasurit) were the best. Since I was already in deep, I figured the extra costs wouldn't be a big deal.
To make a long story short, it turned out to be a good move on my part because the top shelf Glasurit cost me less money then the medium level DuPont Chromasystem. Does it really matter in the hands of a novice? It does to some extent IMO. The problem with the auto paint business is that it's very old school. You, the end user have to obtain your materials through local suppliers, most of whom have no interest in wasting their time on a one time customer. They would rather deal with the body shop that buys $100K in supplies each month. I can understand that, but they should at least try to conceal their contempt for me. You will never see a single price listed on any product they have on display, so you never know if you're getting ripped off. You can buy a roll of masking tape, and at the same time Bubba, from Bubba's Ultra-High Production Collision Center will be buying the same roll of tape and nothing else on that visit. He's one of their $100K/month accounts but he's only buying this roll of tape today. The guy at the counter is going to make sure you check out first. After you pay, he's gonna shoot the **** with Bubba until you leave the store. Then Bubba will get to check out. If you wait in the parking lot and compare your receipt to Bubba's, you might find that you paid 20%-30% more for that roll of tape then him. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just telling you what to expect.
The only hope that you have is that you happen to call ahead and speak to someone who actually takes a genuine interest in your hobby and wants to see you do well. I happened to call the Glasurit supplier and speak to a guy who thought the 928 was a great car, and thought it was really cool that there were still a few people willing to brave a painting project on such a car, by them self. So basically he sold me the base coat, clear, hardener, reducer, etc, for the same prices as his biggest account holders paid. The DuPont dealer wanted to charge me full retail. I compared the receipts from some DuPont I had bought a few weeks prior and the Glasurit was about 30% less.
Now, on to my third paint gun. I had been pondering a nicer paint gun for the base and clear because I knew the paint wasn't cheap, and you only have one shot to get it right, or else you get to spend a lot more money and time to do it over. I figured a good paint gun could eliminate some more confounding variables that could cause me trouble. But good paint guns can get expensive real fast. So on the day when I bought the final paint supplies, I told the guy I was looking for a decent paint gun for this part of the job. He showed me the cabinet that had some higher end DeVillbiss guns ($400 or so) and a few Iwata guns that cost a little more. Then he showed me the Sata guns but they were around $600 and I wasn't going to spend that much. Then I heard the magic words "wait a minute, why's this still back here?" This all happened about 2 or 3 months after Sata had released their latest, greatest, most efficient and ergonomically designed Satajet3000. The Satajet3000 was $600 gun I mentioned earlier. He pulled out the previous model Sata which was the Satajet2000. He basically told me that he wouldn't be able to sell it to the pros since the Satajet3000 was all the rage due to being the new model. Although it was now obsolete, just a few months earlier the 2000 was their top of the line gun that they sold for $500ish. He said "how does $250 sound?" I said I'll give you $200 in cash as I pulled a stack of $20s out of my pocket. He said "well, since the seal on the box has been broken you got a deal." So I've got a Satajet2000 that cost me about the same as some of the nicer Chinese made guns.
Although there are never any guarantees, and my experience was highly unusual, it does happen. This is why it pays to shop and keep your eyes open. Did I need such a high-end gun? Probably not. But I got it because I was at the right place, at the right time, and spoke to the right person.
I also agree with Stephen that blocking epoxy sucks. Some epoxies do have a high enough solids content that they can be used as a high-build sanding primer, but you're going to kill yourself and go through a tremendous amount of sandpaper to do it. Using a dedicated sanding primer is much better.
Dean, when you reach the blocking stage of prep, I really recommend the durablock kit I mentioned elsewhere. It'll drive up your costs a bit, but it's money well spent.
I've got 3 paint guns. The first one I bought was a DeVilbiss Finishline from Eastwood. I bought it because it came with 1.3, 1.5, and 1.8 tips that could be quickly and easily changed. I also purchased an even larger 2.2 tip that was available then. The gun was also about $45 dollars less then it is now. In the end, I only used it for primer.
The second gun I bought was a Sata. It was the Sata KLC P. It's a specialty gun for sprayable polyester filler like Slick Sand. I used it and was happy with it, but overall, it was a waste of money. Had I just reduced the Slick Sand a little, I could have sprayed it through my DeVillbiss just fine.
The third gun I bought is where it pays to choose a good paint supplier. And let me talk about that for a minute. My local paint supplier deals in DuPont Chromasystem. It is just fine as a mid-field product. They can get ChromaPremier or Spies-Hecker products within a day or two, but their main offering is Chromasystem. I decided I was going to use Glasurit from BASF, because many reputable people said Porsche used Glasurit (sometimes) and that the top-shelf products from BASF (R-M, Diamont, Glasurit) were the best. Since I was already in deep, I figured the extra costs wouldn't be a big deal.
To make a long story short, it turned out to be a good move on my part because the top shelf Glasurit cost me less money then the medium level DuPont Chromasystem. Does it really matter in the hands of a novice? It does to some extent IMO. The problem with the auto paint business is that it's very old school. You, the end user have to obtain your materials through local suppliers, most of whom have no interest in wasting their time on a one time customer. They would rather deal with the body shop that buys $100K in supplies each month. I can understand that, but they should at least try to conceal their contempt for me. You will never see a single price listed on any product they have on display, so you never know if you're getting ripped off. You can buy a roll of masking tape, and at the same time Bubba, from Bubba's Ultra-High Production Collision Center will be buying the same roll of tape and nothing else on that visit. He's one of their $100K/month accounts but he's only buying this roll of tape today. The guy at the counter is going to make sure you check out first. After you pay, he's gonna shoot the **** with Bubba until you leave the store. Then Bubba will get to check out. If you wait in the parking lot and compare your receipt to Bubba's, you might find that you paid 20%-30% more for that roll of tape then him. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm just telling you what to expect.
The only hope that you have is that you happen to call ahead and speak to someone who actually takes a genuine interest in your hobby and wants to see you do well. I happened to call the Glasurit supplier and speak to a guy who thought the 928 was a great car, and thought it was really cool that there were still a few people willing to brave a painting project on such a car, by them self. So basically he sold me the base coat, clear, hardener, reducer, etc, for the same prices as his biggest account holders paid. The DuPont dealer wanted to charge me full retail. I compared the receipts from some DuPont I had bought a few weeks prior and the Glasurit was about 30% less.
Now, on to my third paint gun. I had been pondering a nicer paint gun for the base and clear because I knew the paint wasn't cheap, and you only have one shot to get it right, or else you get to spend a lot more money and time to do it over. I figured a good paint gun could eliminate some more confounding variables that could cause me trouble. But good paint guns can get expensive real fast. So on the day when I bought the final paint supplies, I told the guy I was looking for a decent paint gun for this part of the job. He showed me the cabinet that had some higher end DeVillbiss guns ($400 or so) and a few Iwata guns that cost a little more. Then he showed me the Sata guns but they were around $600 and I wasn't going to spend that much. Then I heard the magic words "wait a minute, why's this still back here?" This all happened about 2 or 3 months after Sata had released their latest, greatest, most efficient and ergonomically designed Satajet3000. The Satajet3000 was $600 gun I mentioned earlier. He pulled out the previous model Sata which was the Satajet2000. He basically told me that he wouldn't be able to sell it to the pros since the Satajet3000 was all the rage due to being the new model. Although it was now obsolete, just a few months earlier the 2000 was their top of the line gun that they sold for $500ish. He said "how does $250 sound?" I said I'll give you $200 in cash as I pulled a stack of $20s out of my pocket. He said "well, since the seal on the box has been broken you got a deal." So I've got a Satajet2000 that cost me about the same as some of the nicer Chinese made guns.
Although there are never any guarantees, and my experience was highly unusual, it does happen. This is why it pays to shop and keep your eyes open. Did I need such a high-end gun? Probably not. But I got it because I was at the right place, at the right time, and spoke to the right person.
05-19-2010, 09:58 PM
#64
Drifting
Thread Starter
5-19-10
Started primer today. Shot a wet coat of epoxy primer over everything except soft bumpers and head light pots. Then changed to a sand-able high build on that. I have to do a little more on the rear hatch but I wanted to get the steel and aluminum in primer.
ITS MILLER TIME!
Started primer today. Shot a wet coat of epoxy primer over everything except soft bumpers and head light pots. Then changed to a sand-able high build on that. I have to do a little more on the rear hatch but I wanted to get the steel and aluminum in primer.
ITS MILLER TIME!
05-19-2010, 10:06 PM
#66
Nordschleife Master
WOW! That is AWESOME! Remember prep, prep, prep...that continues on in to this primer part too! Sand, paint, sand, paint, sand, paint...layer upon layer till the surface is so smooth and perfect that the paint layer can't help but also be PERFECT! What was the final color chosen?
05-19-2010, 10:20 PM
#68
Nordschleife Master
Yea, he better be close! It won't be long before you have to go buy some paint to finish this bad boy up! I SOOOO want to do this with a black '95 (so I might get by w/o painting the engine bay) to make it a tribute to the LAST US GTS!
05-19-2010, 11:37 PM
#70
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2009
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Don't forget about your guide coat then block sand!
Fun Fun!
Looks awesome. You did a nice job taping the door hole. I would hate to show you what mine looked like. Reminded me of my 5 yr olds present wraping!
Fun Fun!
Looks awesome. You did a nice job taping the door hole. I would hate to show you what mine looked like. Reminded me of my 5 yr olds present wraping!
05-19-2010, 11:51 PM
#71
Drifting
Thread Starter
After about an hour ( clean the paint gun ) I used Nason ( made by DuPont ) 421-19 2k Urethane primer applied 2 wet coats with a 10 min flash. I will add one more coat in the morning when the store opens.
05-20-2010, 12:18 AM
#73
Drifting
Thread Starter
I THINK although the sheet says any DuPont will work fine. I have read good not so good things about their base.
Last edited by Dean_Fuller; 05-20-2010 at 12:35 AM.
05-20-2010, 12:33 AM
#74
Drifting
Thread Starter
Is a sheet on the epoxy primer / sealer....although I used a siphon regular paint gun to shoot. I shot at about 60 psi...per gun and NOT 40 psi per this sheet. I hope that doesn't come back to bite me.
05-20-2010, 12:38 AM
#75
Drifting
Don't apply more until you block it once. You can use 320grit. You said you'll add one more when the store opens. Do you have to buy more? If so, I'm going to suggest you go with the buff (tan/yellow) colored stuff (421-17), and apply two more coats. That way, if you start to sand through, the color will change from buff to gray. If you do start to sand through, you need to apply more. Try to keep that **** out of all the jambs, recessed areas like the door locks, or anywhere that can't be seen when the doors, hatch, and hood are closed. That stuff has to be sanded to work properly and those areas are a bitch to get sanded properly (additionally, they really don't need it.)