Do you have to be wealthy to own a 928?
03-08-2010, 02:51 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
Not wealthy, just ingeneous.
First I would say read what WallyP said - twice.
Then, if your still interested and you can do your own maintenance, buy the workshop manuals.
Get a rennlist membership (I think this has been mentioned).
Then find a 928 group close to you.
I would say budget $1500.00 per year (more if you can) for maintenance.
The thing is these cars tend to become addictive.
I told myself when I got the first one, I wasn't going to let this get out of hand. Then I got the 2nd and then a 3rd. I parted out the 3rd for the other two.
I just replaced the transmission in one and, I'm getting ready to build an engine for the other.
To coin a few lines from a song (slightly modified).... "and then one day you find... all those cars have got behind you....no one told you when to stop"
Cheers,
First I would say read what WallyP said - twice.
Then, if your still interested and you can do your own maintenance, buy the workshop manuals.
Get a rennlist membership (I think this has been mentioned).
Then find a 928 group close to you.
I would say budget $1500.00 per year (more if you can) for maintenance.
The thing is these cars tend to become addictive.
I told myself when I got the first one, I wasn't going to let this get out of hand. Then I got the 2nd and then a 3rd. I parted out the 3rd for the other two.
I just replaced the transmission in one and, I'm getting ready to build an engine for the other.
To coin a few lines from a song (slightly modified).... "and then one day you find... all those cars have got behind you....no one told you when to stop"
Cheers,
03-08-2010, 04:14 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
IF:
- You can and will do all or almost all of your own work.
- You are willing to learn how to do the work.
- You are willing to buy a minimal set of metric tools and a few not-too-expensive special tools ($60 belt tension gage, flywheel lock, etc.).
- You are willing to live with a fun-to-drive, slightly worn/rough daily driver, and NOT require a new or restored 928.
- You are careful enough and lucky enough to avoid timing belt failure, thrust bearing failure and other relatively rare problems.
Then you can drive a 928 for free - that is, if you keep the car in the same or better condition while you own it, you can probably sell it for close to what you paid for it. Not many cars like that.
IF:
- You can't/won't learn to do your own work.
- You don't have anywhere to work on the car.
- You can't afford the insurance.
- You want a new or restored 928.
Then you probably can't afford one.
- You can and will do all or almost all of your own work.
- You are willing to learn how to do the work.
- You are willing to buy a minimal set of metric tools and a few not-too-expensive special tools ($60 belt tension gage, flywheel lock, etc.).
- You are willing to live with a fun-to-drive, slightly worn/rough daily driver, and NOT require a new or restored 928.
- You are careful enough and lucky enough to avoid timing belt failure, thrust bearing failure and other relatively rare problems.
Then you can drive a 928 for free - that is, if you keep the car in the same or better condition while you own it, you can probably sell it for close to what you paid for it. Not many cars like that.
IF:
- You can't/won't learn to do your own work.
- You don't have anywhere to work on the car.
- You can't afford the insurance.
- You want a new or restored 928.
Then you probably can't afford one.
This allows you to take the time you need to fix the 928 when you need to learn how to do the major mechanical jobs (ie timing belt, intake refresh, motor mounts, etc..) These jobs took me a couple of months apiece in the winter.
This way I could do it in conjuction with real life without making my wife and family feel like Porsche Widow/orphans.
03-08-2010, 05:09 PM
#51
Race Car
It's funny. I'm turning in my leased 2008 Saturn Vue early (long story-suffice to say there have been issues) without penalty. I need to find a daily driver for work. I've only put 8,500 miles per year on any car over the past 4 years (my wife puts 14,000 on our Civic Hybrid) as my commute is short and I do a bit of business travel by air or train.
So now it comes down to leasing once again or buying a quality used car. If I look at a relatively reliable 2003-2005 Acura MDX I still have a timing belt & water pump change as well as general tuneup (plugs and such) at 100,000 miles. If those are the only fixes I'm looking at $1,000 minimum. If I look at a Benz or Bimmer, my maintenance goes up (even if my purchase price goes down).
Now as much as I'd love to buy a set of 16" Wintercult wheels with snow tires and make a 928 my daily driver, I'm not going to do it. I do however realize that whether it's a Honda, Benz or Bimmer, cars cost money to keep up.
Even if my annual spend is $2000/year on a 928, and it's a 3rd car, big deal in the long-term scheme of things. Even if it's a daily driver-it's still cheaper to keep than many other cars when you factor in depreciation, maintenance (ever look how much a BMW 128i coupe costs-even with "free" maintenance? Heck even a VW with basic maintenance), interest (whether leased or bought) and in the end, over a 5 year period, it's cheaper than a new or used Honda, Benz, VW or Bimmer.
Plus the Smiles per Gallon seem to be far higher than any of the above cars...
Like anything, it's a USED car and will have issues. Plan accordingly and you won't be declaring bankruptcy or leaving the car to rot or be sold cheap.
I'm a wannabe wrencher with no garage space or time so I have to factor in what I can and cannot do on my own. The good news is I may have access to a lift and tools from a friend-of-a-friend's body shop-in which case the costs go down and my experience goes up. Electric, nuts & bolts don't scare me. I used to build Hemis and fix cars in high school. I've wired up speakers and subwoofers in an interior and you'd never know the car had been touched.
What I truly appreciate about this thread and the list in general is the realism (for wrenchers and non-wrenchers). I've said some dumb things and taken my lumps, but at the end of the day, it's all about the 928 and a common love and goal of keeping these beauties on the road.
It's also taught me to use my head, not my heart, when buying. While there are no guarantees, if you get a car from a List member or have it checked at one of the 928 mechanics in a PPI, you have a fighting chance of keeping the bills smaller for the outset. They will go up over time and ANYTHING can fail tomorrow; however, that is the case with ANY used car...
End of my babbling.
So now it comes down to leasing once again or buying a quality used car. If I look at a relatively reliable 2003-2005 Acura MDX I still have a timing belt & water pump change as well as general tuneup (plugs and such) at 100,000 miles. If those are the only fixes I'm looking at $1,000 minimum. If I look at a Benz or Bimmer, my maintenance goes up (even if my purchase price goes down).
Now as much as I'd love to buy a set of 16" Wintercult wheels with snow tires and make a 928 my daily driver, I'm not going to do it. I do however realize that whether it's a Honda, Benz or Bimmer, cars cost money to keep up.
Even if my annual spend is $2000/year on a 928, and it's a 3rd car, big deal in the long-term scheme of things. Even if it's a daily driver-it's still cheaper to keep than many other cars when you factor in depreciation, maintenance (ever look how much a BMW 128i coupe costs-even with "free" maintenance? Heck even a VW with basic maintenance), interest (whether leased or bought) and in the end, over a 5 year period, it's cheaper than a new or used Honda, Benz, VW or Bimmer.
Plus the Smiles per Gallon seem to be far higher than any of the above cars...
Like anything, it's a USED car and will have issues. Plan accordingly and you won't be declaring bankruptcy or leaving the car to rot or be sold cheap.
I'm a wannabe wrencher with no garage space or time so I have to factor in what I can and cannot do on my own. The good news is I may have access to a lift and tools from a friend-of-a-friend's body shop-in which case the costs go down and my experience goes up. Electric, nuts & bolts don't scare me. I used to build Hemis and fix cars in high school. I've wired up speakers and subwoofers in an interior and you'd never know the car had been touched.
What I truly appreciate about this thread and the list in general is the realism (for wrenchers and non-wrenchers). I've said some dumb things and taken my lumps, but at the end of the day, it's all about the 928 and a common love and goal of keeping these beauties on the road.
It's also taught me to use my head, not my heart, when buying. While there are no guarantees, if you get a car from a List member or have it checked at one of the 928 mechanics in a PPI, you have a fighting chance of keeping the bills smaller for the outset. They will go up over time and ANYTHING can fail tomorrow; however, that is the case with ANY used car...
End of my babbling.
03-08-2010, 09:41 PM
#53
Chronic Tool Dropper
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
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If the idea ofdirt under the fingernails scares you, before you start working, try packing that area with hand cleaner, and giving the hands a coating of same, without washing it off with water. When it comes time to clean up, the hands come out sparkling clean. Gloves help a lot too.
To the OP: Take the purchase price of the car and put it in the bank instead. Add $5k for good measure. Add your annual insurance costs to that deposit, and registration fees too. Add $2k for the second year, and $1500 to $2000 a year after that. Put an old chair in the garage where the car would live, and don't move it or put anything else in that space. The first month, go sit in the garage all day every Saturday and do nothing. Once a month after that, go sit in the garage where the car would sit. Read the sports section for a few hours, do nothing else. Argue with your wife about the money and the time spent in the garage. Oh yeah, add the costs of lots of tools if you don't yet have them, all deposited into the bank. Can you afford to do that? Would your marraige and famiuly life survive OK with that? 0How would you feel? Invite your favorite car friends over once in a while, and show them the bank book and the space in the garage, and explain to them that you made a much better investment than buying a 928. How would you feel? Now, would you make a good 928 owner? Or would you be better off saving the money, calling a cab when you want to go somewhere?
(for most in major metro areas, a bus pass and a cab ride when needed are still WAY cheaper than keeping a car...)
-----
I consider myself the temporary caretaker of my 928. My duty is to make sure that it's in the same good running condition when it leaves me as when it arrived. It's my daily drive, but I don't commute anywhere in it and weeks can go by between drives sometimes. It costs about $2/mile to drive it, in gas, insurance, and maintenance upkeep averaged over my total ownership time of over 12 years. There is no depreciation considered, because it will sell now for what I paid for it originally. Everything on the car works perfectly. There's a pile of parts waiting to go on it, close to $2k, and it will be due for a timing belt in 2011 ($500 in parts), need rear tires sometime this year (just the rears, $650/pr), brake pads and rotors this year (~$800). No other major costs anticipated, but I keep a few $k in reserve in case something serious goes wrong. I've been able to do all my own work so far, but have a safety net with Greg Brown if I get over my head on something. If that sounds like a program that won't make you poor, a 928 could possibly be in your future.
To the OP: Take the purchase price of the car and put it in the bank instead. Add $5k for good measure. Add your annual insurance costs to that deposit, and registration fees too. Add $2k for the second year, and $1500 to $2000 a year after that. Put an old chair in the garage where the car would live, and don't move it or put anything else in that space. The first month, go sit in the garage all day every Saturday and do nothing. Once a month after that, go sit in the garage where the car would sit. Read the sports section for a few hours, do nothing else. Argue with your wife about the money and the time spent in the garage. Oh yeah, add the costs of lots of tools if you don't yet have them, all deposited into the bank. Can you afford to do that? Would your marraige and famiuly life survive OK with that? 0How would you feel? Invite your favorite car friends over once in a while, and show them the bank book and the space in the garage, and explain to them that you made a much better investment than buying a 928. How would you feel? Now, would you make a good 928 owner? Or would you be better off saving the money, calling a cab when you want to go somewhere?
(for most in major metro areas, a bus pass and a cab ride when needed are still WAY cheaper than keeping a car...)
-----
I consider myself the temporary caretaker of my 928. My duty is to make sure that it's in the same good running condition when it leaves me as when it arrived. It's my daily drive, but I don't commute anywhere in it and weeks can go by between drives sometimes. It costs about $2/mile to drive it, in gas, insurance, and maintenance upkeep averaged over my total ownership time of over 12 years. There is no depreciation considered, because it will sell now for what I paid for it originally. Everything on the car works perfectly. There's a pile of parts waiting to go on it, close to $2k, and it will be due for a timing belt in 2011 ($500 in parts), need rear tires sometime this year (just the rears, $650/pr), brake pads and rotors this year (~$800). No other major costs anticipated, but I keep a few $k in reserve in case something serious goes wrong. I've been able to do all my own work so far, but have a safety net with Greg Brown if I get over my head on something. If that sounds like a program that won't make you poor, a 928 could possibly be in your future.
03-08-2010, 10:59 PM
#54
Been selling Twinkies on Ebay,
have some extra cash right now.
Rennlist Member
have some extra cash right now.
Rennlist Member
If the idea ofdirt under the fingernails scares you, before you start working, try packing that area with hand cleaner, and giving the hands a coating of same, without washing it off with water. When it comes time to clean up, the hands come out sparkling clean. Gloves help a lot too.
To the OP: Take the purchase price of the car and put it in the bank instead. Add $5k for good measure. Add your annual insurance costs to that deposit, and registration fees too. Add $2k for the second year, and $1500 to $2000 a year after that. Put an old chair in the garage where the car would live, and don't move it or put anything else in that space. The first month, go sit in the garage all day every Saturday and do nothing. Once a month after that, go sit in the garage where the car would sit. Read the sports section for a few hours, do nothing else. Argue with your wife about the money and the time spent in the garage. Oh yeah, add the costs of lots of tools if you don't yet have them, all deposited into the bank. Can you afford to do that? Would your marraige and famiuly life survive OK with that? 0How would you feel? Invite your favorite car friends over once in a while, and show them the bank book and the space in the garage, and explain to them that you made a much better investment than buying a 928. How would you feel? Now, would you make a good 928 owner? Or would you be better off saving the money, calling a cab when you want to go somewhere?
(for most in major metro areas, a bus pass and a cab ride when needed are still WAY cheaper than keeping a car...)
-----
I consider myself the temporary caretaker of my 928. My duty is to make sure that it's in the same good running condition when it leaves me as when it arrived. It's my daily drive, but I don't commute anywhere in it and weeks can go by between drives sometimes. It costs about $2/mile to drive it, in gas, insurance, and maintenance upkeep averaged over my total ownership time of over 12 years. There is no depreciation considered, because it will sell now for what I paid for it originally. Everything on the car works perfectly. There's a pile of parts waiting to go on it, close to $2k, and it will be due for a timing belt in 2011 ($500 in parts), need rear tires sometime this year (just the rears, $650/pr), brake pads and rotors this year (~$800). No other major costs anticipated, but I keep a few $k in reserve in case something serious goes wrong. I've been able to do all my own work so far, but have a safety net with Greg Brown if I get over my head on something. If that sounds like a program that won't make you poor, a 928 could possibly be in your future.
To the OP: Take the purchase price of the car and put it in the bank instead. Add $5k for good measure. Add your annual insurance costs to that deposit, and registration fees too. Add $2k for the second year, and $1500 to $2000 a year after that. Put an old chair in the garage where the car would live, and don't move it or put anything else in that space. The first month, go sit in the garage all day every Saturday and do nothing. Once a month after that, go sit in the garage where the car would sit. Read the sports section for a few hours, do nothing else. Argue with your wife about the money and the time spent in the garage. Oh yeah, add the costs of lots of tools if you don't yet have them, all deposited into the bank. Can you afford to do that? Would your marraige and famiuly life survive OK with that? 0How would you feel? Invite your favorite car friends over once in a while, and show them the bank book and the space in the garage, and explain to them that you made a much better investment than buying a 928. How would you feel? Now, would you make a good 928 owner? Or would you be better off saving the money, calling a cab when you want to go somewhere?
(for most in major metro areas, a bus pass and a cab ride when needed are still WAY cheaper than keeping a car...)
-----
I consider myself the temporary caretaker of my 928. My duty is to make sure that it's in the same good running condition when it leaves me as when it arrived. It's my daily drive, but I don't commute anywhere in it and weeks can go by between drives sometimes. It costs about $2/mile to drive it, in gas, insurance, and maintenance upkeep averaged over my total ownership time of over 12 years. There is no depreciation considered, because it will sell now for what I paid for it originally. Everything on the car works perfectly. There's a pile of parts waiting to go on it, close to $2k, and it will be due for a timing belt in 2011 ($500 in parts), need rear tires sometime this year (just the rears, $650/pr), brake pads and rotors this year (~$800). No other major costs anticipated, but I keep a few $k in reserve in case something serious goes wrong. I've been able to do all my own work so far, but have a safety net with Greg Brown if I get over my head on something. If that sounds like a program that won't make you poor, a 928 could possibly be in your future.
03-08-2010, 11:02 PM
#55
Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Southern California
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You don't have to be rich. Just find a good technician you can trust and do all the maintenance required. Not much more than any other car out there in reality. I was scared also, but once you understand that there are people out there to help its much more conforting.
Enjoy!
Enjoy!
03-09-2010, 12:14 AM
#56
Addict
Lifetime Rennlist
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It all boils down to if you are lucky..... most everything on a 928 can fail. Many things are very expensive to fix. So if one or two of those happen to hit while you own the car you get to pay , the other owners may have had a great experience while they had it , just the luck of the draw. Having seen shop records on several 928s I still believe that it is EASY to spend $200 per month some months less some very much more. I think Danglerb admits to spending $10-12,000 on his $3,000 928 and is not quite done. Note the post earlier on this thread....guy does his own work has already spent more fixing than he paid for the car ! When in one of my less social moods I have been known to comment about a car as being $10,000 away from being a $5,000 car. No one NEEDS a 928 we just WANT THEM and there is nothing LOGICAL about emotions !
03-09-2010, 12:53 AM
#57
Burning Brakes
It all boils down to if you are lucky..... most everything on a 928 can fail. Many things are very expensive to fix. So if one or two of those happen to hit while you own the car you get to pay , the other owners may have had a great experience while they had it , just the luck of the draw. Having seen shop records on several 928s I still believe that it is EASY to spend $200 per month some months less some very much more. I think Danglerb admits to spending $10-12,000 on his $3,000 928 and is not quite done. Note the post earlier on this thread....guy does his own work has already spent more fixing than he paid for the car ! When in one of my less social moods I have been known to comment about a car as being $10,000 away from being a $5,000 car. No one NEEDS a 928 we just WANT THEM and there is nothing LOGICAL about emotions !
'89 S4 GP White/Black
'76 912E Silver/Black sunroof
03-09-2010, 10:36 AM
#59
Been selling Twinkies on Ebay,
have some extra cash right now.
Rennlist Member
have some extra cash right now.
Rennlist Member
but who's counting?
Car cost $7K + an additional $1200 to get it imported/shipped from Toronto. Then the "personalization" began (what can I say? I lived in California).
Granted, probably over 1/2 of the $$ spent since was on things the car didn't actually NEED, but that I sure WANTED! Euro engine, S4 brakes, Konis/Hypercoils, 17's, tinted glass, spoilers, paint...
I've never actually added it up! Maybe I never will. I still want to change out the cork dashboard/console/armrests to black. And sports seats would be nice...
So do you HAVE to be wealthy to own a 928? No, but it sure helps!
03-10-2010, 01:39 AM
#60
Poseur
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Hello Everyone - First timer here - I have always wanted a 928 but have been too scared to buy one because of the maintenance costs. This forum is cool because I am seeing lots of DIY articles that I didn't know existed. It is starting to sway my opinion about possible ownership. Do you think that most jobs are DIY and that the costs can be held down (somewhat)?
Today's 928 owners either have plenty of disposable income or are good wrenches themselves.
They're beautiful cars but any part number that starts with a "928" is going to set you back a bunch!
I'm presently working on one for a buddy who intends to sell it. I'll let you know in a month!
