What about a Porschev track car?
11-11-2009, 07:35 PM
#16
Race Director
Dangler
Like everyone says there is no "Cheap" way to get seat time on track.....even the least expensive to operate race vehicle there is (miata) runs around $150 per hour on track assuming nothing major breaks or you don't crash....then add the cost of the trackday at $1-200 and a typical 2 hour track day costs you $500 per day not counting time off work, hotel, food and the cost of the rig to tow the whole package around.....
yes you can make a "less" expensive track car..my lemons effort is a perfect example....sure its a "$500" car, but once you add up all the safety equipment and fabrication time is WAY more than that..
In terms of tracking an auto...its fine for the early stages when your learning (I'd say better since you don't have to think about shifting) and doing DE's and even time trials...but most full race groups will not allow a true automatic in wheel to wheel racing....
Will a chevy powered 928 be fast on the track....I think it will......the LS style motors are very reliable, make HP cheaper than a 928 motor and run around 200lbs lighter......renegade makes a good kit for not much $$$.....
My advice to you is just track the street 928 you have now....go to a POC day where Jim and Mark go, get an instructor and have fun in the rookie class...early in the game it doesn't matter what type of 928 you have...anything in good running condition is fine...just get out there and have fun....you will be hooked like the rest of us soon enough....
Like everyone says there is no "Cheap" way to get seat time on track.....even the least expensive to operate race vehicle there is (miata) runs around $150 per hour on track assuming nothing major breaks or you don't crash....then add the cost of the trackday at $1-200 and a typical 2 hour track day costs you $500 per day not counting time off work, hotel, food and the cost of the rig to tow the whole package around.....
yes you can make a "less" expensive track car..my lemons effort is a perfect example....sure its a "$500" car, but once you add up all the safety equipment and fabrication time is WAY more than that..
In terms of tracking an auto...its fine for the early stages when your learning (I'd say better since you don't have to think about shifting) and doing DE's and even time trials...but most full race groups will not allow a true automatic in wheel to wheel racing....
Will a chevy powered 928 be fast on the track....I think it will......the LS style motors are very reliable, make HP cheaper than a 928 motor and run around 200lbs lighter......renegade makes a good kit for not much $$$.....
My advice to you is just track the street 928 you have now....go to a POC day where Jim and Mark go, get an instructor and have fun in the rookie class...early in the game it doesn't matter what type of 928 you have...anything in good running condition is fine...just get out there and have fun....you will be hooked like the rest of us soon enough....
11-11-2009, 07:55 PM
#17
Nordschleife Master
Brian,
PCA Club Racing does not care about full auto or manual on the tranny at all. That said, you can't PCA Club Race a car w/o a Porsche engine in it.
No cheap way to have a track car unless you already own the 928 and just strip it out to make it lighter and then off you go to the track w/ a better than stock power/weight ratio...
PCA Club Racing does not care about full auto or manual on the tranny at all. That said, you can't PCA Club Race a car w/o a Porsche engine in it.
No cheap way to have a track car unless you already own the 928 and just strip it out to make it lighter and then off you go to the track w/ a better than stock power/weight ratio...
11-11-2009, 08:07 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
Thread Starter
Racing is inherently expensive, racing to win even more so, the last 10% often costing as much as the first 90%. Having fun on the track isn't going to be trip to the amusement park cheap, but all I am thinking about is cheap ENOUGH that I can do it.
I'm also not suggesting this is the cheapest way to go on a track car, that's got to be something like Jim's very brown car.
This is about making a scary fast track car at the lowest cost possible, including long term use. IMHO using a 383 opens up a world of HP possibilities that are not practical for most of us to explore with a Porsche engine. Doing it on a budget means almost NEVER taking the more expensive choice.
Sunroofs didn't become standard until about 1983, early non sunroof cars are not hard to find.
S4's, even as junk are too expensive to start with, OB's with autos are easy to find cheap, as in less than $500.
Do we need S4 brakes, no, other cheaper options exist.
Do we need a kit from RH, nope, maybe a couple specific items, but most I would prefer to rethink as they apply to the track specific car, and much less is required with the AT conversion.
Do we need a 4 spd AT, not really, but used ones are cheap, might as well upgrade when the original tranny fails.
Used tires are a given, with money spent instead on getting rims to fit the best cheap used tires.
Street legal if at all possible, would be highly desirable removing the expense of a trailer and tow vehicle, but drives up some other costs depending on your state.
*** My next engine will be a garden variety Euro hybrid with a hot rod cam, and I intend to run it around the track in a 5 spd 928. If that doesn't turn out to be enough HP to suit me, then other options start to have more practical appeal.
I'm also not suggesting this is the cheapest way to go on a track car, that's got to be something like Jim's very brown car.
This is about making a scary fast track car at the lowest cost possible, including long term use. IMHO using a 383 opens up a world of HP possibilities that are not practical for most of us to explore with a Porsche engine. Doing it on a budget means almost NEVER taking the more expensive choice.
Sunroofs didn't become standard until about 1983, early non sunroof cars are not hard to find.
S4's, even as junk are too expensive to start with, OB's with autos are easy to find cheap, as in less than $500.
Do we need S4 brakes, no, other cheaper options exist.
Do we need a kit from RH, nope, maybe a couple specific items, but most I would prefer to rethink as they apply to the track specific car, and much less is required with the AT conversion.
Do we need a 4 spd AT, not really, but used ones are cheap, might as well upgrade when the original tranny fails.
Used tires are a given, with money spent instead on getting rims to fit the best cheap used tires.
Street legal if at all possible, would be highly desirable removing the expense of a trailer and tow vehicle, but drives up some other costs depending on your state.
*** My next engine will be a garden variety Euro hybrid with a hot rod cam, and I intend to run it around the track in a 5 spd 928. If that doesn't turn out to be enough HP to suit me, then other options start to have more practical appeal.
11-11-2009, 08:57 PM
#19
383 opens up a world of HP possibilities that are not practical for most of us to explore with a Porsche engine
Street legal if at all possible,
If you need any help or advice let me know. Glad to see someone else thinks this is worth a shot.
11-11-2009, 09:49 PM
#20
Race Director
Dangler
I also like the euro 5L hybrid engine setup...good for a reliable 300whp with ease......pretty light too, say 2700lbs + driver as raced...
In terms of race classes..... keeping the OEM engine does allow you do run in PCA-POC and NASA GTS & switching to a non OEM engine make you super ITE in SCCA or ST in NASA....but since NASA pretty much always uses power to weight ratios in their classes you should always be in a competitive class
I also like the euro 5L hybrid engine setup...good for a reliable 300whp with ease......pretty light too, say 2700lbs + driver as raced...
In terms of race classes..... keeping the OEM engine does allow you do run in PCA-POC and NASA GTS & switching to a non OEM engine make you super ITE in SCCA or ST in NASA....but since NASA pretty much always uses power to weight ratios in their classes you should always be in a competitive class
11-11-2009, 10:47 PM
#21
I was driving my 85 on the Pocono South course earlier this year. I was having a good day, and all of a sudden I was in a groove, following a couple of guys who were running faster than I was. I chased those guys lap after lap. The car was creeping up the banking every lap just before I straightened up to brake hard into the bend going into the twisty bits. At a certain point I realised I was going a whole lot faster and I hadn't gotten a whole lot smarter.
A good 928 is capable of scarey fast speeds.
If you are thinking you want to do this, and you haven't done some track days already, I would go out to Laguna Seca, and sign up for a Skip Barber course or two. You will get to see haow you like it, plus you will get to drive the course, which is a blast. Best of all, you will be driving someone else's car, and getting good input from the instructors.
And yeah, if I had a Porchev, I would know what to do with it. But I have a well set up 928, so I run the Porsche I have. It really seems to like it, but you will go through tires.
A good 928 is capable of scarey fast speeds.
If you are thinking you want to do this, and you haven't done some track days already, I would go out to Laguna Seca, and sign up for a Skip Barber course or two. You will get to see haow you like it, plus you will get to drive the course, which is a blast. Best of all, you will be driving someone else's car, and getting good input from the instructors.
And yeah, if I had a Porchev, I would know what to do with it. But I have a well set up 928, so I run the Porsche I have. It really seems to like it, but you will go through tires.
11-11-2009, 11:51 PM
#22
Nordschleife Master
Just a word of warning... The 4spd auto trans requires much cutting of the tunnel to fit in an OB/S car. Even if the donor was an auto car the 4spd case is much bigger.
