blau928

I made a bit of progress over the weekend, and some of it was a major PITA, especially the fuel damper and connecting the rails around the oil filler. Hours clearancing and running lines, and making sure I didnt forget anything.. I realized after that the AN fitting for the vacuum pump needed to be offset bored to compensate for the fuel line... Too late to rebore.. However, when the SC is installed, there will be completely new fuel rails and the oil filler will be different. I could also modify the oil filler, and may do that as well, as there will be one less CAD piece to machine..

Anyway, pics from left to right again..

Two side views of the compressor and the modified water bridge to indicate what it will look like when mounted on the car.

The last pic is of the engine bay prior to fitting the radiator and coolers for testing without the SC.. (I'll post another pic showing a different angle of the water bridge the installed on the car later, as this one has it hidden by the hoses and the oil filler..)

There are hoses everywhere, rerouted fuel, rerouted coolant lines, rerouted coolant and fan sensors, as well as the vacuum pump scavenge and vent lines. (Kinda looks like Medusa's head....)

I still have to run the lines to and from the Provent, and relocate the steering reservoir... I anticipate the provent lines to be a major PITA, as there is a huge premium on space down there in that corner..

Bill Ball

Hi Richard:

We covered the fuel heating issue in PMs. I believe we understand each other now. Until George and I went with a pump arrangement that reduced fuel flow rates to essentially stock levels except under WOT conditions, the fuel heating and resulting vapor lock at high altitude remained a problem even with larger fuel delivery and return lines.

blau928

Hi Bill,

Yes, the fuel thing was definitely cleared up in the PM's!! I also don't ever take it as a lecturing..

No worries,

blau928

So, I installed the rad and all the hoses for clearancing, relocated the steering reservoir, and got the provent situated. Now I have a snake pit full of stuff.... As my dad said, 20lbs of **it in a 20lb bag this 928 of yours...

Anyway, pics from top to bottom.

1. You can see looking at the passenger dise from the driver side, the provent, rad hoses, scavenge pump hoses, new fuel line, and some harness leads. If you try hard enough, you can see the scavenge pump where the air pump used to be.. The lines with writing on them are AN-6, and are for the transmission and go to the Laminova oil cooler now on the driver's side. They need to be run on the bottom out of the way, and I will do this when I get the final install done.

2. Next you can see looking at driver side from passenger side, The steering reservoir is under the air intake, and yes, the cap can come off to check the fluid.!!! I replaced the lines with new ones, and discovered the hoses are a pain as they are different sizes... Also a bunch of coolant lines, fuel, scavenge, and some blue SAMCO coolant hoses for a bit of good looks...

3. Here is a slant front view from drivers side, and you can see the top of the Laminova Cooler coolant outlet for the engine and trans, and this will connect to the other blue hose on the block. The coolant lines exiting from the block are AN-16, and need to be positioned for the SC snout and belt clearance, so they are run a bit circuitously, as the radiator entry is on the passenger side of the car. BTW, the rad is a dual pass C&R aluminum specially made for me..

I tried to use as many kevlar lines as possible to keep the weight down as well.. It now all has to come out and have clamps and minor things adjusted for clearances etc., then it can all go back in after I put on the dizzys, and the cambelt covers and crank pulley, and tension the new cambelt etc...

All this needs to be done by Thursday and started and tested for leaks..... Anyone want to come help????

jorj7

So how are you going to get the supercharger belt through that nest of snakes?



George
90 S4 Grand Prix White (Murf #5)
94 GTS 5-Speed Midnight Blue
http://928.jorj7.com

blau928

Hi George!

Vewwwwwwwy Vewwwwwwwy carefully!!

The passenger side coolant hose needs to orbit a bit, and the other hoses are already clear.. The pulley will pass close to the oil filler, and that will come out if neccessary. I have an oil filler in CAD that I can machine, or I can try to modify the current one. That will be for the last bit, once everything else is sorted. I may do a special oil filler-water bridge delete, in which case I can have reverse flow cooling (heads first) and get my cake and eat it too..

If all else fails, I am also a certified snake charmer!!!!

69gaugeman

Subscribing because there are some neat innovations that I see.

Question: Why reverse flow the coolant? I can't see that head temps are ever an issue and so this seems to be a solution to a problem that doesn't exist?

blau928

Hiya,

Thanks for the interest.

Answer:

The science says that you can have more accurate control around CHTemps with reverse flow due to the heads being hotter than the cylinders when the cylinders are warmed first. The cooler heads allow for increased detonation control by making the temperature limit higher and allowing the heads to remove more heat from a hotter cylinder charge. (Most modern engines are now cooled heads first..)

With all that said, I am not sure what the heads in my 928 will be doing once I add the heat, as I have not datalogged the head temps on my setup as it is not built yet. I do know that in past, with extended use in high load conditions, the temps get up there in some of the high HP 928's I have been in. (Mostly DEVEK built). So, I will datalog and see where they are then I can tell everyone here what I found out in the datalog..

The second has to do with clearance around the water bridge. I can have easier access to components the way this will be packaged, and as I will be possibly make a new oil filler, it could be done at the same time.

Third, I am considering an electric water pump, which will allow a sealed system that does not kill the pump bearings as the current WP would be replaced with a bearing carrier support for the cambelt where the exposed section on the WP impeller in the block would no longer be exposed to the coolant.

Fourth, This would lead to the end of current WP replacement for me, and when coupled with a PK/Audi type tensioner, the cambelt would not need to be adjusted for 60K miles, and the Wp being electric can be readily changed as it will be outside the engine.

Fifth, as Tuomo put it "Because I can?"

Hope that helps,

TexasDude74

Awesome project! GM gave up on the reverse cooling thing claiming it caused more problems than it solved. Mainly uneven head temps due to air pockets, bubbles will still rise against the coolant flow. Might be an issue on a forced induction setup, hotter exhaust valves and such. Electric water pumps have improved a lot in recent years, and the water pump does seem to be a common failure point on these cars. Looking forward to seeing your results.

blau928

Hi Texas,

Thanks for the support. Good to know about GM giving up... However, there are some things I want to try, and can always reverse it if neccessary.. I believe the GM setup used low system preessure about 15psi, where the bubbles are addressed with higher pressure in the system.. 40psi is the magical number that helps, as well as controlling the flow so thermal shock doesn't kill the motor as well from my research..

We shall see....


To all the others following the build here:

As of last Friday, I am in Amsterdam, and then Hamburg mid next week, so no car project until I get back from europe in mid may.. (Although I will get my 150mph fix on the A24 and A1/A7 in Germany without getting arrested as would happen in CA!!)

The new oil and engine coolant equipment is installed, the car starts and runs, but I need to heat test and check for small leaks in the cooling system as it is entirely new as well. The oiling system is leak checked, and all new lines are clean (no leaks) and run clear of belts and pulleys. (Although I still need to secure the mylar heat shielding in some areas to keep it from fraying etc.)

The scavenge pump works, and I also need to check the vacuum in the crankcase and see if there are any vacuum leaks in crankcase, and also in case I missed a vac hose etc. Then it will get the driving test and a few miles of run in with temp watching and monitoring the setup. Also need to fluch the AC system, and recharge and leak check....

Once this is done, I will be starting on the machining of parts for the supercharger and intercooler installation with the LH setup first, then the Motec setup after that as I have to builld the engine harness and get a Motec CDI8 with 8 coils.

I'll post more pics when I get back, as I didn't have time to post pics before leaving CA..

Wish you all a good weekend.

Cheers,

blau928

I found this on my blackberry, thought I should post it.. It shows the belts connected, one of the SC idler pulleys, and the oil lines waiting to be connected..

Imo000

The plan is to run a 40psi cooling system?

blau928

yes

blau928

So boys and girls......

I have finally been able to get back to doing some testing and fitting things in the car after getting back from euroland. The AWIC radiators are now mounted in the nose, and I cleaned up the sight of the engine coolant lines as well.. I tested for minor leaks today by warming the car up and idling for several minutes until the fans cycled, fixed a few minor leaks by tightening some clamps etc.., and will test some more tomorrow, as I may need to replace one of the power steering lines to the reservoir. If all goes well, I should be able to get the car driving on the road for a road test of all the new lines and modified water bridge etc this weekend. (then smog it next week..)

Here are some pics:

Left to right, top to bottom..

1. Looking at the front of the car with a good view of the AC Condenser, the AWIC Radiators and the engine bay.

2. Top down view of the very tight clearance of the fans for the AC-AWIC Rads, and the engine rad with the brackets for the AWIC rads as well. I need to brake bend a piece of aluminum sheet to covet the top of the space betweent he AC Condenser and the AWIC radiators... Next week sometime..

3. View from the driver's side of the front of the engine bay. You can see the Provent 200 tucked in the corner on the passenger side. I will also be experimenting with a Provent 400, as I think it will be a better setup based on the vacuum pump ratings and pulley ratio etc.. (It should fit if I measured correctly...)

4. Top down view of the engine rad fan and clearances etc. The brass fitting is there for me to test the crankcase vacuum and see what things are like with the GZ pump installed. The SC drive and pulley will be going where the oil filler is, and will be between the two coolant lines {two bigger braided hoses with red fittings}. The fuel line {smaller braided hose with blue fitting connected to the damper} will be relocated later as well so the SC belt will not be obstructed in line with the crank pulley.

I think I found some Denso coils to run COP with the Motec, so both distributors, rotors, plug leads, and wires will be going away once I install these. This should make the appearance on the valve covers and front of the engine a "little bit cleaner".... (If you like clean snakes in a pit/engine bay.... They are growing on me... )

Lizard928

I hope you aren't planning on pushing boost with the AC on........

other than that, its looking good.