nsantolick

Hi all;

Sometime today, one of the remaining "gotta own one someday" dream cars of my life is arriving. Perhaps the finest, most interesting car that I've craved for even a ride in since high school; a white 1989 Porsche 928 S4, with stunning gray leather, a killer stereo and only 77,000 or so verified miles on it's odometer.

I bought it on eBay, after about two or three months of obsessive searching. The research I've done over this time has me convinced that I'll never get rid of it, and will treat it as my daily driver. There are so many things that just blow me away with the car, and I'm ready for the whatever downsides can happen. I'll spend whatever it takes, but at the same time, I don't want to burn piles of money needlessly...

In intelligently researching "what to do when it gets here", I've truly understood the meaning of the cliche "ignorance is bliss..." No, I didn't have it inspected. I've spoken with a factory dealer that had serviced it since 2000 and it sounded nice. I do trust the dealer who sold it to me, but understand that he's not an expert with these cars. It looks good and has been driven fairly regularly for a while though.

As far as the timing belt goes, it SEEMS that it was replaced in 2003/2004. A Porsche dealer shows that it was in for a belt adjustment, and the guy who worked on it recalled it recently having had a new belt, installed by someone else, soon before he adjusted the tension in January 2004.

I've spent countless nights, literally, HOURS a day "reading into it" and calling all over. I've got to to tell you all though that there is so much conflicting information out there that I kind of know what that guy from that old 80's movie "Scanners" felt like, just before his head exploded...

I called the nearest Porsche factory dealer. They were nice, but candidly recommended that I take it to a non-factory dealer nearby, as their current service people probably haven't EVER done a belt job on a 928.

I called the recommended non-dealer, and found that I've known him for 25 years now. Didn't know he had his own place. It's huge, and he's the type that genuinely is "good" with cars, and has done a number of 928's. On the other hand, he said that he hates the tensioning meter and basically uses finger pressure.

Regarding the tensioner, he said that if it doesn't "look bad", he doesn't touch it. He insisted on some bearings and a water pump, and that was nice to hear, at least. However, when queried as to when I can get my new toy in/out, he couldn't say, and it sounded like it would take 2-3 weeks or so, at least. (since I've been waiting for this moment for years, that's bound to feel like centuries to me...) Probably should rule that one out, I figured.

I then joined the PCA. I called my local club president. They recommended a dealer, 80 miles away who I know is trustworthy. Major dealer. Nice, friendly experienced people. They estimated "a timing belt job / water pump / etc. job" to run at least $4000.00... (OUCH!!!)

I called them back and asked about using parts that I provide. They graciously accepted and even gave me a number of who to call. Nevertheless, at $100 an hour, doesn't $2000.00 in labor seem excessive? And they warned me that the re-tension, at 1500 miles, would run $6-700...

It wasn't the plan when I bought it, but with all of that, I figured I'd do it myself. I've tinkered with cars forever and absorb info relatively well. (I have a Citroen SM and am working on a Maserati Biturbo; also complex cars, and aside from occasionally needing a couple of pitchers of Guinness to decompress afterwards, and ample first aid supplies to cover the wounds, I've been able to handle the work relatively easily...)

ANYWAY, the car only has about 2000 miles or so on it's belt. I doubt it was abused or driven hard at all. The dealer who sold it to me put several hundred miles on it in the last few months without issue, but confesses that he never had it much over 70MPH...

Odds are I'm going to do the work myself. Oil change, brake fluid flush and "WHATEVER" I should do with the timing belt "project."

First off, assuming that the car had a belt in, say, 2002, in the worst case, DO I EVEN NEED TO DO THE BELT NOW? (~2000 miles on it...)

If I do the timing belt work, should I rebuild the tensioner? A prominent parts supplier just told me with that kind of mileage, I should just replace the rubber boot and clamp. I intend to do the water pump. I intend, to use that popular 60 dollar gauge to set tension.

I've never even sat in a 928, little lone driven one. $2000 in labor to have a factory dealer do the work seems unreasonably high, doesn't it? Anyway, any advice, conflicting or otherwise would be most appreciated.

My MAJOR QUESTION though is, should I just leave it parked until I service the belt? Can I drive it 2-300 miles, gently, not flooring it, keeping the RPM's low, with a decent chance of not having the engine go kablooey?

Aside from the sorts of things listed on various "pre-purchase inspection" lists, what would you all recommend me servicing, or paying extra close attention to???

I want to "do it right..." This will be a keeper. It will be a daily driver. I'm not insane anymore with regards to my road manners, but I will beat the hell out of it on rare occasions and insist that it's tip-top and as ready for it as can be expected. If all goes well, I intend to supercharge it towards the end of the year.

Like I said, Ignorance is bliss. The dealer drove it. It's most likely, but not guaranteed to have had a new belt put in 5-6 years ago MAX, with 2000 garage kept, South Carolina miles or so since. It'll be here in a few hours.

CAN I DRIVE IT? What would be a "reasonably safe" set of rules to follow until I "do" whatever is necessary maintenance-wise? What would be a reasonable list of things to start with???

Anyway, sorry to ramble. Can't sleep. I'm really excited to even sit in it, little lone take it out for a ride. I just feel REALLY, REALLY NERVOUS that it's likely to explode like a grenade because the belt is, in the opinion of many, near or over it's expected prudent life. I just don't know if that's based on 6500 RPM blasts, or come to think of it, if RPM's even matter regarding the belt...

I will not hold anyone responsible, of course. I'd just love some personal input. I've been waiting for today, for MONTHS... If I can't drive it until this and that is done, so be it, but, as a complete virgin to 928's, I really don't know what is right, especially with so many differing opinions.

Anyway, my name's Nick. Glad to join Rennlist. I'm looking forward to the PCA's events and whatnot. The car really seems clean and well cared for, but I'm really paranoid.

ANY input would be greatly appreciated. All the best to all of you. I'll post some pictures soon, etc, and probably will start a blog or something to show others my experiences with this car, as well as some other neat cars that just followed me home over the years. Thanks in advance...





N.S. Antolick - NE Pennsylvania

kary4th

I did all the tb work on mine right after I bought it. It was surprisingly easy, with the help of rennlist and 928 Specialists (www.928gt.com).

In all, it cost less that $800, and now I have the tools.

We're here to help. A few of us aren't even that far away. Congratulations!

Bertrand Daoust

First congradulation and welcome to Rennlist.

It's the best place to find informations on the 928. You'll find lots of general info. and full maintenance procedures (including T.B./W.P. job). Use the search fonction. It is very helpfull.

Regarding the T.B., I did not take any chance when I bought mine (in 2005) and had the job done by a local mecanic here as soon as I got the car. It had been changed in 2000. My mecanic told me that the belt was still in very good condition. But I was happy at the same time not to had take any chance... But that's me... By the way, the job cost me about 2600$ including changing all the fluids and belts. I think 4000$ is on the high side for that job.

Post some pics of your new dream car please.
And congradulation again.

Pfunde

Yep, welcome to rennlist from the other side of the pond. Change TB, unless you have absolut prooves of it being changed as it was sopposed to be. Otherwise enjoy your 928, it´s a fine car, and I´m sure you will find great pleasure........

Angel84-928

Welcome Nick,
This is the best place to come for help. Unless you have a lot of discretionary income I would suggest that you do most of the work yourself. Timing Belt/Water Pump replacement has been well documents as has Motor Mounts to name a few. There are at least 3 major suppliers for 928 parts that are also Forum sponsors. My experience with them has always been outstanding.
Don't get yourself too wrapped around the axle about the unknown that will keep you from enjoying your new addition. There is only so much you can control. More enjoyment, less worry.

P.S. invest in a subscription to the forum, best investment I've made to date.

Nightfly

TBWP job cost me about $2500 last November, done by Ed at a private garage called Jorge and Jacks in Clifton, N.J.. Work was done right, I think that's about the right price for it. My car had I think 74,000 on it at the time, but as I didn't know when it was done previously, I didn't drive it (except the ride home from the dealer) until it was done. Until you get it apart, you won't know the condition of the belt. By that point, you may as well change it. Anything else is a gamble.

David L. Lutz

Its probably all right to drive it especially if is been driven on a regular basis. If its been in a garage for years (not driven) I probably would change the belt more on an urgent basis. If its been driven with no problems then that should indicate that the belt is running stright with no problems. If thats the case, these belts are really tough and hard to just snap. You could take a flashlight and look down into the 2 little breather holes. (one on each side on top of the cam gear cover) and look at the belt. Look for clean, no soot, runing in the center of the gear, etc

However, in any case you need to do the reg. maint. items and check the car over and for sure change the belt.

Too bad your not close to the Beach here and I would be more that happy to help you. (not working now...extended vacation)

By the way, welcome . You ended up with a good year '89,

Jadz928

Welcome and conrats!

Is it an 5 speed or Auto? If auto, relieve the Thrust Bearing, if not done recently, Thrust Bearing Failure (TBF) is catastrophic.

marton

Welcome also

They say the belt should be changed after 5 years if you did not already hit the mileage limit. So you are close on that.
The other possible issue is that if the car has been standing a long time then the belt could have permanently distorted. On the other hand you say the dealer was driving it without problems.

You could take one or both of the top cam covers off & take a good look at the belt. As others said, there should be no obvious signs of damage points like cracking or fibres coming off. The belt should be tracking in the middle of the cam gears; this means you can see metal teeth both sides of the belt.
If the mileage is really that low then probably the back of the belt still has the original markings which is a good sign.

I assume you do not have the TB tension warning light on?

Changing the belt yourself is no big deal. There are plenty of writeups.. First time takes longer; I would describe it as a long job but not complex. When I did mine it was easier than I expected but lots of stuff to do & undo - like taking off the accessory belts seem to take for ever.

Good luck

Marton

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

Only drive it if you want to accept the risk of a much higher repair bill. While based on the history it may not be likely, there is a risk of a large cost.

Like the others, I would advocate doing the job yourself, plenty of help to get you over any questions. It isn't a complex job, just many hours and a few might be tedious.

dr bob

How far is NE Pennsylvania from SE Pennsylvania? Rennlister Earl Gilstrom offers services to friendly 928 owners, and I suspect that he allows you to participate in the whole PPI process as well as the TB/WP project. Learning under that kind of expert guidance is a treat, plus all the tools and equipment are there. You should PM him.

Alan

My take is you have no idea how old the belt is - only that its at least 4 years old.... That means to me you should change it now.

I should not cost $4K - maybe half that - at a good shop the retension should be included in the price or buy the aftermarket gauge and do that yourself. Find a good independent shop that knows 928's - don't go to a dealer - even the friendly ones don't know squat on a 928 anymore (unless there's an old guy in the back somewhere...).

The whole TB/WP is quite a bit of work - doable but help 1st time would be good too. I'd say everthing should be changed (WP for sure) - make sure the cam sprockets aren't showing too much wear and at least rebuild the tensioner. Why take chances - the incremental costs aren't that high WYAIT...

Alan

Jim bailey - 928 International

I am sorry but this post is just plan WRONG !! "He sells a much better modern Audi one that retrofits with his kit. Will cost a few dollars more than rebuilding yours but you don't have to retention...ever! and next time all you change is the pulley. With the stock tensioner if it leaks oil it could stop working and then there big trouble. The Audi is self contained." The factory tensioner is mechanical not hydrolic if the oil leaks out all that happens is the belt might get a bit too tight as the engine warms up until the heat of the block transfers to the cup shaped washers. Plus the "update" disables the tension warning light
system which if the water pump pulley is coming off the shaft you simply will not know it. Quite frankly I believe that many, many screwups by mechanics have been BLAMED on the tensioner primarily for three reasons 1) many shops think they are similar to the 911 chain tensioners which use oil 2) the 911 tensioners did fail with regularity 3) the shops did not want to admit that THEY did something wrong Back to the original question ... If your plans are to drive the S-4 like it was meant to be driven AND you are considering a blower.... You might as well jump in now and start turning wrenches sooner than later. I would suggest that you get a $59 tension tool pull the passenger distributor cap rotor (look at them ) and carefully inspect all of the belt looking for cracks see how much of the printing is still on back side of the belt and check tension. If all looks O K then go ahead and drive it a bit just to see how everythings works so you KNOW what you got and can enjoy it. The car no doubt has lots of nearly 20 year old hoses, knock sensors, vacuum lines etc. all of which should probably be changed BEFORE you add boost. The belt needs to be done as well but that will probably take you 2 -3 days to do that the first time.

Alan

Guys come on here ... the belt was changed in 2003/2004 - maybe..? - no documentation - a mechanic remembers it....

(So?... what do you remember accurately about doing on your own car 4 years ago...? yeah me too!)

The car has been driven for 2000 miles in the last 4 years with several hundred of that quite recently.. that tells me its been siitting idle for many months at a time....

Can you drive it - yes - gently doesn't really make much difference in my mind - starting & changing gear stress the belt anyway. Will it break - probably not - but you are certainly at much higher risk because of the all the unknowns... with the miles on it the belt will no doubt look quite new - but what does that really mean...

It's for sure a risk - if it fails you will have a very large bill and probably months off the road... I would not drive it like this - or only the the local shop for the work.

This is certainly true also - plan to replace all the rubber hoses - especially the fuel hoses.

Alan

Randy V

I'll just say welcome to the 928 and Rennlist.