WARNING - K&N Filters and Air Mass Sensors
06-22-2002, 01:57 PM
#16
Hi all,
Been running my 87 S4 with K&N since 99. (It was so heavily oiled that it was running down the back of the airbox). Never had a problem. (I did clean a re-oil (properly) a few months ago)
Been on the dyno plenty of times and have seen personally the loss of power with the K&N vs. the stock filter. Switched for a few months to the stock filter.....Went to our local drag strip (Pac NW 928 Import Drag Day) and ran 14.2 fairly consistently. Swapped out the stock for the K&N and next run gained 0.1 sec and ran 14.1 to 14.0 ish. It's been in there ever since. I don't think the dyno is a good environment to test air flow mods since you can't easily duplicate the true effects that come from airflow over the car..
Car still pulls in good mileage and the car started at 121K and now has 145K. Next step I'll remove the MAF screens...when I do , I'll make sure I take a look at the element.
In my case I guess YMMV truly applies..
Later,
Tom
midlman@seanet.com 87 s4 AT
Been running my 87 S4 with K&N since 99. (It was so heavily oiled that it was running down the back of the airbox). Never had a problem. (I did clean a re-oil (properly) a few months ago)
Been on the dyno plenty of times and have seen personally the loss of power with the K&N vs. the stock filter. Switched for a few months to the stock filter.....Went to our local drag strip (Pac NW 928 Import Drag Day) and ran 14.2 fairly consistently. Swapped out the stock for the K&N and next run gained 0.1 sec and ran 14.1 to 14.0 ish. It's been in there ever since. I don't think the dyno is a good environment to test air flow mods since you can't easily duplicate the true effects that come from airflow over the car..
Car still pulls in good mileage and the car started at 121K and now has 145K. Next step I'll remove the MAF screens...when I do , I'll make sure I take a look at the element.
In my case I guess YMMV truly applies..
Later,
Tom
midlman@seanet.com 87 s4 AT
06-22-2002, 08:41 PM
#17
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ft. Lauderdale FLORIDA
Posts: 5,248
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
You know....it occurs to me-
That on the few occasions that I have had the MAF sensor off, I have noticed about a teaspoon or slightly less of motor oil on the bottom of the elbow. I usually wipe it out with a paper towel- just some blow-by, I guess. This car goes through less than 1 quart of Castrol GTX 20/50 in 3,000 miles.
But if the oil is getting into the bottom of the elbow, might it be possible, during shut-down or start up, that some might be blown up a little farther and hit the MAF wire?
Normy!
'85 S2 5 speed
That on the few occasions that I have had the MAF sensor off, I have noticed about a teaspoon or slightly less of motor oil on the bottom of the elbow. I usually wipe it out with a paper towel- just some blow-by, I guess. This car goes through less than 1 quart of Castrol GTX 20/50 in 3,000 miles.
But if the oil is getting into the bottom of the elbow, might it be possible, during shut-down or start up, that some might be blown up a little farther and hit the MAF wire?
Normy!
'85 S2 5 speed
06-22-2002, 09:00 PM
#18
[quote]Originally posted by Normy:
<strong>But if the oil is getting into the bottom of the elbow, might it be possible, during shut-down or start up, that some might be blown up a little farther and hit the MAF wire?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The engine oil shouldn't get up to the MAF wire from there. The bottom of that elbow is where the oil comes in, from the breather hose that connects there.
<strong>But if the oil is getting into the bottom of the elbow, might it be possible, during shut-down or start up, that some might be blown up a little farther and hit the MAF wire?</strong><hr></blockquote>
The engine oil shouldn't get up to the MAF wire from there. The bottom of that elbow is where the oil comes in, from the breather hose that connects there.
06-24-2002, 03:18 PM
#19
Hi People,
I successfully cleaned the hot wire sencor on my Volvo with a can of electrical parts cleaner. I was carefull not to get the nozzle to close to the wire. It took like thirty seconds of continous spraying to get it clean, but it worked and didnt damage the wire. Hope this helps...
Aaron
I successfully cleaned the hot wire sencor on my Volvo with a can of electrical parts cleaner. I was carefull not to get the nozzle to close to the wire. It took like thirty seconds of continous spraying to get it clean, but it worked and didnt damage the wire. Hope this helps...
Aaron
06-24-2002, 04:26 PM
#20
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
David, I just sold the car last week and I put roughly 54,000 miles on it as a daily driver in that time frame including 3 trips coast to coast. I did advise the new owner about this particular thread though so it's up to him if he wants to change it out or not.
06-24-2002, 04:34 PM
#21
Rennlist Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Thread Starter
[quote] David, I just sold the car last week and I put roughly 54,000 miles on it as a daily driver in that time frame including 3 trips coast to coast. <hr></blockquote>
DANG, 54k in 2.5 years. now that is what a 928 was made for... DRIVING !!!
I would also guess you moved enough air with all this driving to help negate the K&N oil issue on the MAS (seriously)
[quote] I did advise the new owner about this particular thread though so it's up to him if he wants to change it out or not. <hr></blockquote>
That was very nice of you, wish there were more POs like you in the world !
DANG, 54k in 2.5 years. now that is what a 928 was made for... DRIVING !!!
I would also guess you moved enough air with all this driving to help negate the K&N oil issue on the MAS (seriously)
[quote] I did advise the new owner about this particular thread though so it's up to him if he wants to change it out or not. <hr></blockquote>
That was very nice of you, wish there were more POs like you in the world !
__________________
David Roberts
2010 Jaguar XKR Coupe - 510HP Stock - Liquid Silver Metallic
928 Owners Club Co-Founder
Rennlist 928 Forum Main Sponsor
www.928gt.com
928 Specialists on Facebook - 928Specialists
Sharks in the Mountains on Facebook - 928SITM
David Roberts
2010 Jaguar XKR Coupe - 510HP Stock - Liquid Silver Metallic
928 Owners Club Co-Founder
Rennlist 928 Forum Main Sponsor
www.928gt.com
928 Specialists on Facebook - 928Specialists
Sharks in the Mountains on Facebook - 928SITM
06-24-2002, 05:02 PM
#22
Jay, and Dave were busy, were going to zip tie
the heater diaphragm/solonoid back. I drove about 500 miles under sauna conditions the day before.
SO... As Dave and I were were pulling the intake tubes - I will leave the straps on the cover next time- the cover displaced the filter and one just one piece of grashopper got in -my fault. There was a little dust -very little. And a dab of oil at the bottom -very clean oil. It did not coat the throat so, anecdotally, I lean towards the breather theory here...I COULD BE WRONG...
The light dust could have gotten by the filter but if you had seen the banging I gave that poor filter - accident - you would probably agree that I caused the dust. Next time I'll be smoother and let you know the results. For you wire guy's it's probably a different story, I just don't know...
I put roughly 8000 miles on her last year and because of dust conditions here in West Texas clean the filter every 2000 miles.John S.
the heater diaphragm/solonoid back. I drove about 500 miles under sauna conditions the day before.
SO... As Dave and I were were pulling the intake tubes - I will leave the straps on the cover next time- the cover displaced the filter and one just one piece of grashopper got in -my fault. There was a little dust -very little. And a dab of oil at the bottom -very clean oil. It did not coat the throat so, anecdotally, I lean towards the breather theory here...I COULD BE WRONG...
The light dust could have gotten by the filter but if you had seen the banging I gave that poor filter - accident - you would probably agree that I caused the dust. Next time I'll be smoother and let you know the results. For you wire guy's it's probably a different story, I just don't know...
I put roughly 8000 miles on her last year and because of dust conditions here in West Texas clean the filter every 2000 miles.John S.
06-25-2002, 04:45 AM
#23
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't know if this helped or not, besides the driving everyfreakinwhere but I would never just put the K & N back in the box dripping with oil. It's supposed to be oiled liberally but to me that didn't mean put it back in the airbox dripping.
I didn't bother putting K & N's in the 92 500E though and those were a pain in the *** to change out anyway.
(Start tangent)
Oh and for those people who insist on treating your 928's with kid gloves let me just say that your cars can take whatever you can dish out. Going across to D.C. from LA my girlfriend and I left at 8pm on Friday evening and pulled into D.C. Sunday at noon. In that entire time, I turned the engine off maybe three times. We took shifts driving, rarely dipped below 80mph (her shifts cause I'd wake up due to funny feel of car moving below that), and hit highs of about 120 drafting big rigs in the Tennessee mountains (in the rain)in the AM hours when those suckers move out. Car ran the same distance on a tank of gas like a Swiss watch all the way across the country and back.
The weekend before selling it, I took it on one last roadtrip to Vegas vowing to take it somewhat easy but also if something were to let go then it'd do it out in the desert and not with the new owner. Don't need any bad karma. Anyway that plan lasted until I passed the 996 somewhere around San Bernadino. In 95+ degree weather with both my AC's running we hit speeds of 130 and rarely dipped below 80mph. We didn't race, we just ran Autobahn style. As long as I stayed on my toes I could stay up with the 996(2000 model I believe) but on occasion would have to shut the AC's down for maximum pulling power. I'm fairly certain he wasn't shutting down systems to stay ahead of or keep up with me but any initial jump by either of us that wasn't anticipated perfectly meant the other car had a hard time keeping up. The initial acceleration runs from 75 or 80 were brutal if I didn't anticipate him since he had that nice gearbox to work with. From 110mph or so it evened out and most times seemed to be in my favor. This guy was cool though, thumbs up and big smiles in Vegas and we went our seperate ways. That was the way these badboys were meant to be driven regardless of year, or model.
I will miss it but sold the car locally. Told the guy if he ever has to dump it to call me first. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
I didn't bother putting K & N's in the 92 500E though and those were a pain in the *** to change out anyway.
(Start tangent)
Oh and for those people who insist on treating your 928's with kid gloves let me just say that your cars can take whatever you can dish out. Going across to D.C. from LA my girlfriend and I left at 8pm on Friday evening and pulled into D.C. Sunday at noon. In that entire time, I turned the engine off maybe three times. We took shifts driving, rarely dipped below 80mph (her shifts cause I'd wake up due to funny feel of car moving below that), and hit highs of about 120 drafting big rigs in the Tennessee mountains (in the rain)in the AM hours when those suckers move out. Car ran the same distance on a tank of gas like a Swiss watch all the way across the country and back.
The weekend before selling it, I took it on one last roadtrip to Vegas vowing to take it somewhat easy but also if something were to let go then it'd do it out in the desert and not with the new owner. Don't need any bad karma. Anyway that plan lasted until I passed the 996 somewhere around San Bernadino. In 95+ degree weather with both my AC's running we hit speeds of 130 and rarely dipped below 80mph. We didn't race, we just ran Autobahn style. As long as I stayed on my toes I could stay up with the 996(2000 model I believe) but on occasion would have to shut the AC's down for maximum pulling power. I'm fairly certain he wasn't shutting down systems to stay ahead of or keep up with me but any initial jump by either of us that wasn't anticipated perfectly meant the other car had a hard time keeping up. The initial acceleration runs from 75 or 80 were brutal if I didn't anticipate him since he had that nice gearbox to work with. From 110mph or so it evened out and most times seemed to be in my favor. This guy was cool though, thumbs up and big smiles in Vegas and we went our seperate ways. That was the way these badboys were meant to be driven regardless of year, or model.
I will miss it but sold the car locally. Told the guy if he ever has to dump it to call me first. <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
06-25-2002, 10:27 AM
#24
Rennlist Member
WOW LastV8, I thought I put some miles on my GT. I've put 40K on mine in 2 1/2 years. You're right though DR, that is how these cars were meant to be driven, and I swear they appear to have less "problems" when driven regularly. The only items I have to worry about are wear items and time change items (belts, hoses, etc...). Knock on wood, I don't have elctrical gremlins, etc...., like some folks.
06-25-2002, 12:39 PM
#25
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: SoCal
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yeah Chris you sure are right. There are 928's at my local shop that I see in repeatedly for all kinds of stuff and it seems they have 400 miles on them than the last time they came in a few months ago. Mine never had the electrical gremlins either save one instance where the alarm shut the fuel system down while rolling at 20mph. Happened in PA and took a day to figure out. Marc and Susan helped the mechanic out over the phone and he just bypassed it. The local Benz dealership ran every kind of test you could imagine and couldn't figure out the problem which told me it was a 10 cent problem.
Only that once did my car see a flatbed towtruck. Sure a lot of money was poured in but it was all maintenance. In contrast, that 92 500E saw a flatbed 3 times in 8 months. When something let go it was absolutely unnurseable. $4,000 dollar in parts later (Starmark Warranty) and I sold it. The last thing I needed were two cars with 928 like repair/maintenance bills.
When I bought the Audi S4, I started letting the 928 sit for longer periods and I kid you not, that is when the car started getting grumpy. The previous owner drove it 6k a year and little things and habits that cropped up on the car when I first got it started happening again. So, I went back to driving it all the time and it smoothed out.
<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
Only that once did my car see a flatbed towtruck. Sure a lot of money was poured in but it was all maintenance. In contrast, that 92 500E saw a flatbed 3 times in 8 months. When something let go it was absolutely unnurseable. $4,000 dollar in parts later (Starmark Warranty) and I sold it. The last thing I needed were two cars with 928 like repair/maintenance bills.
When I bought the Audi S4, I started letting the 928 sit for longer periods and I kid you not, that is when the car started getting grumpy. The previous owner drove it 6k a year and little things and habits that cropped up on the car when I first got it started happening again. So, I went back to driving it all the time and it smoothed out.
<img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
06-25-2002, 07:24 PM
#26
Instructor
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Jackson Ms
Posts: 194
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Looks like I need to reply with and update on the 95 David is talking about. I can finally walk behind my car now. It's not Running Rich anymore. It's Much faster now,,,, I have a video of my car at the last SCCA event and it had a 6 foot visible trail of black smoke. I changed the oil also. It had to be bad even with only 1k on it.
One thing I forgot to do was to read the base line voltage on the old MAF. I'll do that this week and post what I find. The book says 1.6 to 5, if my memory is correct.
Larry M
One thing I forgot to do was to read the base line voltage on the old MAF. I'll do that this week and post what I find. The book says 1.6 to 5, if my memory is correct.
Larry M
06-25-2002, 08:12 PM
#27
3rd Gear
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 3
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thought a visit to the K&N website might prove interesting. It was.
They adress this very issue and state that if you clean and reoil using their very detailed instruction, one shouild not have an oil on the AMS problem.
Larry Callahan
1994 GTS Auto
They adress this very issue and state that if you clean and reoil using their very detailed instruction, one shouild not have an oil on the AMS problem.
Larry Callahan
1994 GTS Auto
07-01-2002, 06:36 PM
#30
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Wow, I've been a fan of K&N filters for years, and recently have had good luck with BMC filters that are similar. I naturally put a K&N on my 928, but I'm not sure now that it was a good idea.
My 928 went in for a major service soon after installing the K&N, basically replacing a bunch of crappy parts installed by a PO, fixing a few things, and installing a RMB. The car started to hesitate at times, with a pronounced pause followed by a huge rush. This was quite interesting at times, and you could bark the tires in 2nd if you didn't watch it.
I finally pulled the K&N and re-installed the original air filter, and it seems to be better. It's in the shop now to see if they can fix the high idle and make sure it's smooth, and I might put the K&N back on later to see if it is indeed the problem.
One thing that I did notice after putting the original filter back on is that the car "feels" like it is pulling harder. This is all subjective, of course, but the seat of my pants tells me that the stock is better than the K&N.
BTW, this car is a freaking monster! I know it will give some of you the creeps, but I'm going to take it to the drag strip for a test-and-tune day soon. The Boxster and 993 did fairly well at the last one, but I suspect that the 928 may end up being the best of the lot.
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
My 928 went in for a major service soon after installing the K&N, basically replacing a bunch of crappy parts installed by a PO, fixing a few things, and installing a RMB. The car started to hesitate at times, with a pronounced pause followed by a huge rush. This was quite interesting at times, and you could bark the tires in 2nd if you didn't watch it.
I finally pulled the K&N and re-installed the original air filter, and it seems to be better. It's in the shop now to see if they can fix the high idle and make sure it's smooth, and I might put the K&N back on later to see if it is indeed the problem.
One thing that I did notice after putting the original filter back on is that the car "feels" like it is pulling harder. This is all subjective, of course, but the seat of my pants tells me that the stock is better than the K&N.
BTW, this car is a freaking monster! I know it will give some of you the creeps, but I'm going to take it to the drag strip for a test-and-tune day soon. The Boxster and 993 did fairly well at the last one, but I suspect that the 928 may end up being the best of the lot.
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />