Still a bit confused, S2?
08-28-2002, 02:46 AM
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Still a bit confused, S2?
i've seen referances to an S2 and was wondering what that was. S and S4 I've got, pretty basic stuff. Is an 86.5S and S2? Or does it have to do with Euro vs US? TIA
08-28-2002, 02:56 AM
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Here is the deal (according to me, anyway)
The 84-86 Euro 4.7L 16v twin distributer models are known as the S2.
The US 5L 32v models of the corresponding years are sometimes called the S3.
In 87 came the S4 which was the "one model" all over the world.
Hope that helps.
The 84-86 Euro 4.7L 16v twin distributer models are known as the S2.
The US 5L 32v models of the corresponding years are sometimes called the S3.
In 87 came the S4 which was the "one model" all over the world.
Hope that helps.
08-28-2002, 11:52 AM
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Quaz - yup the 2 on the back is stock, and there's more pics of char grilled at:
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/potw/DaveW928/PhotoAlbum32.html" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/potw/DaveW928/PhotoAlbum32.html</a>
Reinhardt has it right apart from a few details which I have only recently got straight myself.
The 84-86 Euro 4.7L 16V twin distributor non-cat is the spec of the S2 version. However the car was only actually marketed as an S2 (with S2 decals being the only difference) in the UK. In the rest of europe this higher spec of car was still sold as an S although I think it still says 'series 2' inside the owners manual (not 100% on this detail).
Porsche continued to sell the 'older' spec single distributor S in the US in 84. This was due to emissions control issues as the S2, which was tuned for performance, would never have met US emissions regs which at the time were far stricter than in Europe.
for 85-86 the first S3 4-valvers were introduced in the States. These allowed engine development for the US market to make progress again as the main benefit of the 4-valves is that they burn the charge cleaner due to better mixing in the combustion chamber. These cars gave US customers better performance than the older S offered but didn't quite reach the S2's.
One other point is that improvements in brakes and suspension that were designed for the upcoming S4 were released early on the 86.5 US cars and on 86 euro cars.
Things got a lot simpler in 87 with the launch of the S4 which was standard throught the world. This was also the first model variant introduced after porsche finally realised they couldn't replace the 911 after all, and the 928 was repositioned as a luxury grand tourer.
I'm sure I can source some S2 rear decals for anyone with a twin distrib euro that wants to let people know what they are driving! Drop me an email at dave@potw.co.uk
Cheers <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
DaveW
<a href="http://homepage.mac.com/potw/DaveW928/PhotoAlbum32.html" target="_blank">http://homepage.mac.com/potw/DaveW928/PhotoAlbum32.html</a>
Reinhardt has it right apart from a few details which I have only recently got straight myself.
The 84-86 Euro 4.7L 16V twin distributor non-cat is the spec of the S2 version. However the car was only actually marketed as an S2 (with S2 decals being the only difference) in the UK. In the rest of europe this higher spec of car was still sold as an S although I think it still says 'series 2' inside the owners manual (not 100% on this detail).
Porsche continued to sell the 'older' spec single distributor S in the US in 84. This was due to emissions control issues as the S2, which was tuned for performance, would never have met US emissions regs which at the time were far stricter than in Europe.
for 85-86 the first S3 4-valvers were introduced in the States. These allowed engine development for the US market to make progress again as the main benefit of the 4-valves is that they burn the charge cleaner due to better mixing in the combustion chamber. These cars gave US customers better performance than the older S offered but didn't quite reach the S2's.
One other point is that improvements in brakes and suspension that were designed for the upcoming S4 were released early on the 86.5 US cars and on 86 euro cars.
Things got a lot simpler in 87 with the launch of the S4 which was standard throught the world. This was also the first model variant introduced after porsche finally realised they couldn't replace the 911 after all, and the 928 was repositioned as a luxury grand tourer.
I'm sure I can source some S2 rear decals for anyone with a twin distrib euro that wants to let people know what they are driving! Drop me an email at dave@potw.co.uk
Cheers <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
DaveW
08-28-2002, 02:14 PM
#7
Drifting
Just so as not to confuse anyone, what I have been able to find is......
The S3 designation refers to the 85' and 86' US models, having 32 valve engines and cats. The Euro spec was available in 85' and 86' with either 16 valve or 32 valve engines. The difference was if you ordered cats or not. The 32 valve engines came with cats as the 16 valve did not. The 32 valve engines were rated at 288 hp and the twin dizzy 16 valve euro was rated at 310 hp. All US spec. 85' and 86's were 32 valve with the 86.5 (Vin # 1000 and up) receiving the S4 suspension and brakes. I do know of a 32 valve 86' Euro with S4 suspension and brakes and a early vin. (928 Forum centerfold, issue #1)
I haven't seen the S2 designation on a car until now and think it's pretty cool.
Anyone else confused yet?
Dave
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
The S3 designation refers to the 85' and 86' US models, having 32 valve engines and cats. The Euro spec was available in 85' and 86' with either 16 valve or 32 valve engines. The difference was if you ordered cats or not. The 32 valve engines came with cats as the 16 valve did not. The 32 valve engines were rated at 288 hp and the twin dizzy 16 valve euro was rated at 310 hp. All US spec. 85' and 86's were 32 valve with the 86.5 (Vin # 1000 and up) receiving the S4 suspension and brakes. I do know of a 32 valve 86' Euro with S4 suspension and brakes and a early vin. (928 Forum centerfold, issue #1)
I haven't seen the S2 designation on a car until now and think it's pretty cool.
Anyone else confused yet?
Dave
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
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08-28-2002, 03:00 PM
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Ketchmi, the early bodied 32V cars (S3's) were not sold in europe, only in the US. The one in Forum rated it's special feature precisely because it was an unusual one off.
The 16V S2's could be fitted with cats if the individual country required them. I think Germany did require them. The UK, France, Italy and others didn't.
Cheers
DaveW
The 16V S2's could be fitted with cats if the individual country required them. I think Germany did require them. The UK, France, Italy and others didn't.
Cheers
DaveW
08-28-2002, 09:24 PM
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So wait, the car I drove was an S3? 86 US spec 32v with cats? Were ther ever S3 decals?
maybe I'll look at 83 or older and 87 or newer to avoid confusion.......
maybe I'll look at 83 or older and 87 or newer to avoid confusion.......
08-28-2002, 11:50 PM
#12
Drifting
Actually, Dave W., I have seen more than 1 86' Euro with a 32 valve engine. There was one for sale recently just north of NY. (Cheap too!) I have persued them as they are a very rare machine. I believe I even discussed it with the owner of the one pictured in the Forum. (Which he has now sold, but lives on the other end of the country.)
Dave
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Dave
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08-29-2002, 12:19 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
If I may use a bit of logic and deduction, if the 1987 928 was officially designated the "S4", then the series just prior to it would be the "S3", even though it was not officially designated as such.
BTW, I've seen a few Euro 86 928s with 32 valves. The one I remember best looked identical to my 86.5 928S except it had no sunroof, had cloth seats, had the rear fog-light and no bumperettes.
~ Merry motoring ~
BTW, I've seen a few Euro 86 928s with 32 valves. The one I remember best looked identical to my 86.5 928S except it had no sunroof, had cloth seats, had the rear fog-light and no bumperettes.
~ Merry motoring ~
08-29-2002, 07:50 AM
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Fair enough.... you've seen them! But back over here in Euro land where they are meant to have come from they are so thin on the ground that I have never come across one, and I do keep my eyes open, so this probably makes these 32V old bugger euro's one of the rarest 928 variants out there.
Cheers
DaveW
Cheers
DaveW
