New Owner....Audio wireing HELP
07-12-2002, 05:03 PM
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New Owner....Audio wireing HELP
This is my first posting and boy can I use some HELP...Who ever Installed the Blau Las Vegas radio in this 928 must have been a part time butcher..They ran external audio wireing and cut off all the plugs that were original..The amp I think has been bypassed so I really don"t know the condition of it..I would appreciate some help in Identifying the factory wireing ...tnx
Bill Walpole 84 928s Ontario Canada
Bill Walpole 84 928s Ontario Canada
07-12-2002, 05:20 PM
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Bill,
I don't know about your model year but on my 1981, the speaker outputs were of light guage wire and went through a floor mounted fader ****. The whole setup may have been fine when new but certainly not anything I'd build a system on today. Also the seperate amp on an 80's vintage car is of very limited sound value. The only reason to incorporate it in my book would be in the interest of originality, and at that, more for personal satisfaction than maintiaining the cars value.
IMHO, worry more about how and where the power was tapped from. Most new radios have built in faders as well decent built in amps. I would not use the original speaker wire but would neatly run a good quality cable.
I don't know about your model year but on my 1981, the speaker outputs were of light guage wire and went through a floor mounted fader ****. The whole setup may have been fine when new but certainly not anything I'd build a system on today. Also the seperate amp on an 80's vintage car is of very limited sound value. The only reason to incorporate it in my book would be in the interest of originality, and at that, more for personal satisfaction than maintiaining the cars value.
IMHO, worry more about how and where the power was tapped from. Most new radios have built in faders as well decent built in amps. I would not use the original speaker wire but would neatly run a good quality cable.
07-12-2002, 05:40 PM
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It appears that the car has factory spkrs installed and I don"t think it is a good idea to hit them with 35 watts from the Blau..I thought I would put everything back to original for now IF and I mean IF the speakers are not already blown. Thankyou for the quick response and I'll keep digging into this mess...fortunately for me the PO left long leads inside the spkr cavities...Thanks again Bill
07-12-2002, 06:00 PM
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Bill,
Forgot to welcome you to the list! Welcome, you'll find abudnant support and help here from much more knowledgeable folks than I.
If you check into the Blau specs, you'll likely find that the 35 watts is a Peak, per channel rating. The RMS rating is likely to only be in the 12-18 watt range. That shouldn't pose a problem for stock speaker IF they are in decent shape (which is highly questionable for 17 year old paper based drivers)and, you don't feed them distortion.
To get back to stock, you'll need a good wiring diagram. You can find these in the workshop manuals. If you don't have a set, you really should consider getting one.
Good luck.
Forgot to welcome you to the list! Welcome, you'll find abudnant support and help here from much more knowledgeable folks than I.
If you check into the Blau specs, you'll likely find that the 35 watts is a Peak, per channel rating. The RMS rating is likely to only be in the 12-18 watt range. That shouldn't pose a problem for stock speaker IF they are in decent shape (which is highly questionable for 17 year old paper based drivers)and, you don't feed them distortion.
To get back to stock, you'll need a good wiring diagram. You can find these in the workshop manuals. If you don't have a set, you really should consider getting one.
Good luck.
07-12-2002, 06:18 PM
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Speakers don't blow from too much power, rather from too little.
The factory setup is really bad. A car like the 928 deserves a really high-end stereo with all new wiring, speakers, and amp(s), and head unit. Personally, I wouldn't use anything other than Nakamichi for the deck. I hate my Alpine that the PO put in. It is not fit for music. It's just fine for talk radio and that's about all.
99% of all stereo installers are butchers, even most of the guys who think they are high-end. Ask them if they have ever been to a live jazz concert or orchestra before they touch your system. Until one can appreciate live acoustal music, they will have no idea what high-end is. Audio is art just as is the 928.
I put a system in my Mercedes just before I bought the Porsche. I wish I would have known that I would be buying it and I would have saved the components for the shark. Now they're buried in the Mercedes almost impossible to remove.
I drive my Mercedes as often as I drive the Porsche because the stereo is such a pleasure to listen to. Sometimes I find that I wish my commute were longer so I would have more time to listen. I can only imagine if this system were in my Porsche! This car has more acoustical potential than any I have ever owned. I can't wait until all the mechanical stuff is done so I can move on to the luxury items.
The factory setup is really bad. A car like the 928 deserves a really high-end stereo with all new wiring, speakers, and amp(s), and head unit. Personally, I wouldn't use anything other than Nakamichi for the deck. I hate my Alpine that the PO put in. It is not fit for music. It's just fine for talk radio and that's about all.
99% of all stereo installers are butchers, even most of the guys who think they are high-end. Ask them if they have ever been to a live jazz concert or orchestra before they touch your system. Until one can appreciate live acoustal music, they will have no idea what high-end is. Audio is art just as is the 928.
I put a system in my Mercedes just before I bought the Porsche. I wish I would have known that I would be buying it and I would have saved the components for the shark. Now they're buried in the Mercedes almost impossible to remove.
I drive my Mercedes as often as I drive the Porsche because the stereo is such a pleasure to listen to. Sometimes I find that I wish my commute were longer so I would have more time to listen. I can only imagine if this system were in my Porsche! This car has more acoustical potential than any I have ever owned. I can't wait until all the mechanical stuff is done so I can move on to the luxury items.
07-12-2002, 07:02 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Hey Bill,
You should be able to identify the speaker routing using a simple 9V battery. You will attach one wire to the negative terminal and one to the positive terminal of the battery. This will take some time until you strike both the negative and positive leads for each speaker. Once you do, you will hear the speaker POP. Once you have isolated the speakers (and labeled them), have someone watch the speaker as you make each of the cone drivers pop. If the cone moves inward then reverse the wires on the battery - the cone should then move outwards. This confirms that the lead you have sitting on the positive terminal of the battery is the positive lead to that speaker. All polarities must be the same or you will get phase cancellation between drivers (very stinky). This simple test will help you isolate all the driver leads and confirm polarity.
BTW - Speakers will blow under both conditions. Underpowered or overpowered. Your rear hatch speakers have probably turned to dust by now. The door speakers - I believe - work as a pair with a cap between the low and the tweeter. The rear quarter drivers usually stand up pretty well over time. I don't think the factory amp had enough ooommppff to kill those.
I do like the Nakamichi stuff as well. I have Alpine in my shark right now but I want to change it to the Nak 6-disc indash changer. I am also converting my entire system over to Beyma loudspeakers and amplifiers (very cool Spanish, handbuilt equipment) Check out some of my ideas at Socal928 site. You will find pics in the pictures section under "Sound System From Hell".
There is a stern warning on this list about someone who had his dashboard smoke based on an incompetent installation of a car stereo. Be very careful when testing. I would suggest disconnecting the car battery while you go through these leads. My '85 has a fader **** beside the drivers seat next to the handbrake. Keep that centered while testing ( I believe it has a center detent)
Cheers
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
You should be able to identify the speaker routing using a simple 9V battery. You will attach one wire to the negative terminal and one to the positive terminal of the battery. This will take some time until you strike both the negative and positive leads for each speaker. Once you do, you will hear the speaker POP. Once you have isolated the speakers (and labeled them), have someone watch the speaker as you make each of the cone drivers pop. If the cone moves inward then reverse the wires on the battery - the cone should then move outwards. This confirms that the lead you have sitting on the positive terminal of the battery is the positive lead to that speaker. All polarities must be the same or you will get phase cancellation between drivers (very stinky). This simple test will help you isolate all the driver leads and confirm polarity.
BTW - Speakers will blow under both conditions. Underpowered or overpowered. Your rear hatch speakers have probably turned to dust by now. The door speakers - I believe - work as a pair with a cap between the low and the tweeter. The rear quarter drivers usually stand up pretty well over time. I don't think the factory amp had enough ooommppff to kill those.
I do like the Nakamichi stuff as well. I have Alpine in my shark right now but I want to change it to the Nak 6-disc indash changer. I am also converting my entire system over to Beyma loudspeakers and amplifiers (very cool Spanish, handbuilt equipment) Check out some of my ideas at Socal928 site. You will find pics in the pictures section under "Sound System From Hell".
There is a stern warning on this list about someone who had his dashboard smoke based on an incompetent installation of a car stereo. Be very careful when testing. I would suggest disconnecting the car battery while you go through these leads. My '85 has a fader **** beside the drivers seat next to the handbrake. Keep that centered while testing ( I believe it has a center detent)
Cheers
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
07-12-2002, 10:23 PM
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Hi Bill,
I'll be the first to tell you I am NOT electrically inclined! As John said, get a set of manuals, they will save you a lot of headaches and MONEY!!!
When we bought our car, we knew the Blau Reno was on it's way out, only one side worked. I started looking at various manufacturers, while the Reno died. What I wanted was well above what I'd usually buy, but the wif was in full support mode, so the dollar figure was of no concern. But I AM an overly careful person, when it comes to my money! I looked for several months, and was about to order a Pioneer from SBH (a $550 unit going for $219!!!), when Wally posted a note about a place in Shiller Park, Ill. that is a Blau distributor, who has new-in-the-box Blau's for between $40 and $500! Here is the URL:
<a href="http://www.midwest-usa.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/cgi-bin/h_search.cgi?U+mw_store+jopc7025+cat=1000&skip=25" target="_blank">www.midwest-usa.com</a>
Following the manuals wiring diagrams, I was able to figure out the wiring and just rewired the new radio into the existing power supply, completely removed the wire harness to the factory amp and removed the amp. Built my own speaker wiring and everything plays fine. The unit I bought has a peak RMS of 45 watts, but like was mentioned, that's not continuous. My original 87 speakers perform well! Thanks again, Wally!
BTW, I opted for the CD2001 unit, no glitz, no LCD displays calling attention to my NEW high output radio, yet not cheap looking, either. Only $110, $117 delivered to my door. Wotta deal!
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
I'll be the first to tell you I am NOT electrically inclined! As John said, get a set of manuals, they will save you a lot of headaches and MONEY!!!
When we bought our car, we knew the Blau Reno was on it's way out, only one side worked. I started looking at various manufacturers, while the Reno died. What I wanted was well above what I'd usually buy, but the wif was in full support mode, so the dollar figure was of no concern. But I AM an overly careful person, when it comes to my money! I looked for several months, and was about to order a Pioneer from SBH (a $550 unit going for $219!!!), when Wally posted a note about a place in Shiller Park, Ill. that is a Blau distributor, who has new-in-the-box Blau's for between $40 and $500! Here is the URL:
<a href="http://www.midwest-usa.com/cgi-bin/SoftCart.exe/cgi-bin/h_search.cgi?U+mw_store+jopc7025+cat=1000&skip=25" target="_blank">www.midwest-usa.com</a>
Following the manuals wiring diagrams, I was able to figure out the wiring and just rewired the new radio into the existing power supply, completely removed the wire harness to the factory amp and removed the amp. Built my own speaker wiring and everything plays fine. The unit I bought has a peak RMS of 45 watts, but like was mentioned, that's not continuous. My original 87 speakers perform well! Thanks again, Wally!
BTW, I opted for the CD2001 unit, no glitz, no LCD displays calling attention to my NEW high output radio, yet not cheap looking, either. Only $110, $117 delivered to my door. Wotta deal!
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
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07-13-2002, 12:45 AM
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Well Folks I did it..as per your sugestions "excellent" thanks a bunch..total distortion from one half of factory amp, blown I'd say but all was not lost connected the Blau to the factory wireing,used the battery method as suggested for phase and voila you wouldn't know it was the same stereo...Thanks again everyone..I would like to upgrade but I just had the timing belt and pump done the play money is pretty tight..just come back from a run "WOW" what a car
Best Regards ...Bill TNX
Best Regards ...Bill TNX
07-13-2002, 01:03 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
Glad to be of help Bill.
BTW - How's the weather up there. I came to CA from Toronto. I had to have more than 3 months a year of shark driving. hehehehe.
Good Luck and enjoy the ride
bbbwwwaaaahhhhh!!!!!!!!
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
BTW - How's the weather up there. I came to CA from Toronto. I had to have more than 3 months a year of shark driving. hehehehe.
Good Luck and enjoy the ride
bbbwwwaaaahhhhh!!!!!!!!
<img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" /> <img src="graemlins/burnout.gif" border="0" alt="[burnout]" />
07-15-2002, 12:42 AM
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Hey Bernie:.Its real GOOD up here right now 90ish in degrees F but as you know that can change real quick..I sure have quite a bit to learn about this 928 but so far really enjoying it..I'm one of these mid life crisis guys and thought the 928 would be cheaper than a mistress but I could be wrong HAHAHA I love it...mechanicly the car is sound just had pump and belt done,torque tube was rebuilt about 2k kms ago as well as brakes so things look good..the next thing is to find a condensor for the a/c and see about getting that fixed but that may have to wait until next year..the core of the condensor just crumbled and was blocking a good portion of the rad so I had the repair shop remove it..any ways I do like this forum and appreciate all the help from all that replied to my plea TNX to all.. Bill 84 928 Platinum Metallic...Chocolate Interior