BC

Its time. The Truck is here, the S2000 is for sale, and I need to get the 78 together.

I took out all the wiring from the 86 yesterday, and laid it out. Heavy, complex for no good reason, and I don't need most of it.

In an effort to be efficient, I was going to just shove most of it into the 78 and run it with the stock computers, stock gauges, etc.

But looking at it, what I need for the race car to run the stock computers, Maybe I should not waste a good loom and sell it to a rennlister who has a burned car or something, and use just the bare minimum universal loom from painless wiring (which I had always planned on doing) and run the engine with the bare minimum of the computer looms. The engine loom is light and simple, and the ignition loom can lose some weight as well.

To the racers - how much do you need just to run the car and start it. JUST that. Is there a way you could show me?

If this gets too complex I may go back to megasquirt + universal loom, but that could hold things up. I really want to get this going ASAP, and with as litle expense as possible, since I am using all my saved up "good" parts and will need to start over with the 86(s4 body) shell.

JHowell37

I took the wiring out of an empty '85 shell and you're quite right, that is a staggering amount of wires just in the main harness. Heavy too. If you can put something together from Painless, I'd do that and try to to hang on to the original set and either sell it complete, or sell parts of it when people need them.

Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net

Sorry Brendan, my minimal race car wiring is in a 928 that had no computers, so it probably won't help much. Lights, starter, fuel pump, fan, not much else... If I recall correctly 7 fuses and 1 relay.

mark kibort

ive seen some disasters with custom wiring. the stock stuff is pretty good. after spending a winter in my spare time, cutting out all the wire that i could find that didnt matter, i saved a bucket of wire weight. problem was, that bucket only weighed 7lbs!!! I think the majority of the weight is in the fuse panel and all the wiring that you dont need. however, im still using my lights, and other accessories, fuel pumps,, computers, etc, so its kind of a waste of time in my book.

mk

Alan

Brendan - you should create a new fuse panel - you really don't need many relays or fuses. You will need all the ECU sensor wirng. Most of the rest can go...
The CE panel is not that heavy - just delete all the relays you don't really need and simplify some of the rest... ger rid of the wiring you don't need.
alternatively there are after-market solutions that are even smaller.

In any case in a racer you should install your cut-off switch between the battery/alternator and new fuse panel supplying the fuel pump/ECU's and the rest of the cars wiring (this is not easy to do on a stock wiring loom set-up)

I assume you will (have) delete(d) AC except blower fan, electric windows, mirrors, seats, radio, most dash, flaps, hatch release, HL motor, headlamps, PSD electrics etc.

Sounds like right now you still have a lot of accessories... do you still use them (e.g. dash?)

Really there isn't much that you really need & some of that can be pared down. e.g. do you need lights other than brakes? do you really need wipers? - can you live with just on/off? cooling fans - permanently on or switched from cockpit etc etc.

Alan

BC

The 78 is a painted empty car, ready for whatever I put in. It will need to be "Street legal" so I can drive it around for various purposes. Thats what the original loom idea was for, but it may just be simpler to do the small universal 14 channel, so while I will still need windows and most lights, it will be lighter and simpler.

dr bob

I think Alan touches on the key to your question. Make a list of what you need to have functioning when you are done, then lokk at whethere it's easier to cut out the extra or fab just whet you need. Some questions are big-- Planning on driving the car to the track? Driving at night? In the rain? If no to those questions, you'll strip a lot of stuff out of the car or fab a little. No need for headlights, related wiring and motors/crossbars/buckets/etc. Need a horn? Parking lights? Interior ligts, AC wiring, stereo, power window wiring, power seat wiring? Are you using the CIS from the early car or a smart system from a later or MS car? Still need ignition, alternator, starter, brake lights, instruments, whatever you decide on FI, a fuel pump, and you are pretty much done. Sounds so simple...

BC

Its all very exciting isn't it?

I ripped out everything from the car, and I will add back

Brake lights
turn signals
some form of headlight, though not the originals, more like bumper mount or Ken's HID-in-da-hole
Power windows (for the time being)
Speedometer
Tach
Temp
Oil Pressure
(though these gauges could be repositioned and they could use thier own aftermarket senders)
Starter
Fuel pump

And what is needed to run the car. As the other car comes on line (it could be a while), the unneeded stuff like power windows will be removed.

I like what Jean-Louie has done with the "empty dash" idea, and I could put a radio there, as I will probably use the car for commuting for a while. I am undecided on HVAC - its already in there, as I put it back with a new fan and a cleaned out HVAC box, but I could take it out.

Jim bailey - 928 International

I find that to street drive most days I need a heater/ defroster/wipers for the wet foggy mornings since I am near the beach and the old very brown 1980 must live outside so most of the time I drive the 318 BMW to work.

BC

Wipers do seem important, but most 928s don't have working AC anyway, so...

dr bob

Most of Yours don't have AC, while most of mine do.

I'll warn you (again...) that real race cars are no fun on the street. Too loud, way too rough-riding, can't pass smog, brakes are not theer until the rotors get pretty hot. BTDT, got lots of t-shirts, etc. It sounds like a cool idea at first...

I drove an almost-legal 911-motivated parking-lot gran-prix car on the street for a while when I was young and immortal. Finally decided to get a bit of safer tank-like American car for the commute to work and school. Took the 'new' car on a 'new' date, and was asked to turn the heat on. Huh? I hadn't driven a car with heat in years, and never thought about turning it on until she said it was too cold to take her clothes off... Ahem.


If you do plan on street-driving it, leave all the electrics in there bacuse you'll need most all of them. Some of the HVAC wiring will go, but that's not really enough to make it worthwhile removing. Im my experience anyway.

John Veninger

I would leave the stock wiring if your also going to run it on the street.

The biggest weight savings is when you really gut the wiring (remove the fuse panel and dash harness) and run the car with a few fuses, one or two relays, ignition toggle switch and a push button start button.

hacker-pschorr

I remember a time when that was considered a sports car

SwayBar

Brendan, I would keep the power windows for a street car.

I agree with Jim 100% as that is the one thing I wish my GT racecar had (..it has wipers though, thankfully). It is no fun driving home at night with the windows fogging up. It is no fun either when it's 50 degrees or cooler and it's raining. I appreciate hard-core cars, and absolutely love Ronn's GT, but under those circumstances, it is too much even for me. Keep the heater!

My picture-perfect idea of a street/track car is either a 996/997 GT3, or a Z06, both of which has power windows, air-conditioning, and a heater.

Mike Simard

Good topic Brendan, I'm doing the wiring on my car right now and it's good to hash out what is desired and considered streetable beforehand.
dr bob has a point about race cars being harsh on the street but everyone has there own expectations. What is too cold and harsh for someone will be the perfect sports car for another. I used to drive a completely gutted car with my own wiring, no side windows or heater, only electrics for the engine and lighting to be 'legal' and it was fine for me. Not having side wondows keeps the fogging down when moving and a paper towel will help too, RainX on the windshield allows you to drive in the rain. I think I even added a togel switch for turn signals. It was a great sports car and handled like a go kart. Another car I drove was a mid engine rail with no body work 'cept for a VW windshield. That was trully a sports car! It was cold and when it rained I got wet but there's nothing like the feeling of hopping into an ultra lightweight car with nothing more than what it takes to hold four wheels and an engine together, it was sports car heaven. The only ammenity a sports car needs is a windshield (unless you want to wear goggles).
Having said all that you may want to go the Kibort route and keep most of the electrics intact. If you were building a pure race car I would suggest removing ALL wiring, keeping it in a box to use as your colored/striped wire inventory, and start from scratch. Order several spools of colored automotive grade wire from a place like Del City and have at it. If you're **** and bothered knowing that you have a mess of unused dormant wires all over your car, starting from scratch can be rewarding. If you were to go that route I'd be glad to share what little I know.