Workshop Manual RANT
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Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Southern Alberta, Canada
I have the hardcopy 9 vol set which I also found fustrating then I upgraded;
I purchased all WSMs, PET 6, and the 3 Technical Publication set from Jim Morehouse.
I haven't touched the hardcopies since.
I purchased all WSMs, PET 6, and the 3 Technical Publication set from Jim Morehouse.
I haven't touched the hardcopies since.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Springfield, MO
Originally Posted by RyanPerrella
why?
what do you need help with?
what do you need help with?
Seriously, I find the WSMs very confusing and lacking a great deal of important detailed information; especially when compared to the information that other DIY Rennlisters compile and share. It's no wonder that mechanics often make a mess of these cars.
Last edited by JKelly; Feb 18, 2007 at 12:23 PM.
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From: Orange, Cal
The WSM is not targeted to a consumer, but to a Porsche factory trained line mechanic. I just look at the pretty pictures so I will know when to nod my head while talking to the mechanic. Even so, once I have a car so I can keep it model year specific I am going to be doing a lot of searching, surfing, printing and putting it all in a notebook from this and other 928 places online.
Some things are also only going to make sense with your hands on the car looking at the WSM and the real part until the light bulb comes on over your head.
Some things are also only going to make sense with your hands on the car looking at the WSM and the real part until the light bulb comes on over your head.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Springfield, MO
Originally Posted by danglerb
once I have a car........
There is a "Factory Trained" Porsche mechanic here locally......German born, trained in Germany, has his own private shop. After speaking with him several times I decided not to ever let him touch my car.
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From: Jersey Shore, USA
John,
I like when some troubleshooting instruction starts with: 'These instructions are valid only if the unit is in proper working condition...'
If it were in proper working condition, I wouldn't be fixing it, would I?
Another good one is 'Remove the unit by loosening the mounting bolts...'
I like when some troubleshooting instruction starts with: 'These instructions are valid only if the unit is in proper working condition...'
If it were in proper working condition, I wouldn't be fixing it, would I?
Another good one is 'Remove the unit by loosening the mounting bolts...'
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From: PacNW
I like the tiny/blurry pictures that refer to the arrow, in which there either is no arrow, or it's pointing towards about 55 different components (you're supposed to guess what they're talking about).
As a Malcom has said, the technical publications and the PET (from Jim) are a big help - not as big as you all here of course!
As a Malcom has said, the technical publications and the PET (from Jim) are a big help - not as big as you all here of course!
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Drifting
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From: zürich, switzerland
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I had to get that off my chest.
Something like "remove timing belt", no mention of the prerequisite circa 26 steps.
Marton
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From: Orange, Cal
Thats what I was getting at with the "factory trained blah blah" the WSM assumes you basically know your way around the 928 from doing lots of work on them, but need to quickly check some details related to the specific job. I just got the factory manuals for my wifes Continental, and its the real deal directly from Ford, and not nearly as useful as the Porsche WSM might be to me if they were in german. Nothing seems to require a diagram to them, and even though its specific to our model and year, it feels like its a warm over of some generic basic document with a few words changed. I bought it to find out how reasonable $540 for new water hoses was, and it didn't enlighten me with so much as a picture that showed all of them since it puts them in different engine part groups.
I looked over a local 94, and it didn't blow my whistle. 89 is what I like best, and really I prefer the rear end on the earlier models.
I looked over a local 94, and it didn't blow my whistle. 89 is what I like best, and really I prefer the rear end on the earlier models.
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From: Sydney AUS
WSM
mmmmm I have the hardcopy 9 vols and Jims masterpiece. I tend to find I only refer to the WSM after the second website has left me still pondering. (For clarification - read 1st choice website then read 2nd choice website then read WSM)
But some stuff in the WSM is good - nowhere else are the wiring diagrams even if you do need half a masters degree to understand them but once you do, it is a simple matter to determine that P didn't change the car wiring precisely on model year changes and you may have to refer to two or even three adjacent model years to figure out the correct answer - especially with UK cars around 87-90.
mmmmm I have the hardcopy 9 vols and Jims masterpiece. I tend to find I only refer to the WSM after the second website has left me still pondering. (For clarification - read 1st choice website then read 2nd choice website then read WSM)
But some stuff in the WSM is good - nowhere else are the wiring diagrams even if you do need half a masters degree to understand them but once you do, it is a simple matter to determine that P didn't change the car wiring precisely on model year changes and you may have to refer to two or even three adjacent model years to figure out the correct answer - especially with UK cars around 87-90.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Jan 2002
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From: Springfield, MO
Originally Posted by danglerb
Thats what I was getting at with the "factory trained blah blah" the WSM assumes you basically know your way around the 928 from doing lots of work on them, but need to quickly check some details related to the specific job.
You (I) have a car engineered and built with attention to great detail of the parts, process, and procedure; and workshop manuals that are compiled in a way that is completely inefficient for "workshop" use, while lacking detail where and when you need it the most. The only explanation for this is that the writers and photographers who compiled and wrote the WSMs must not have collaborated much with the assemblers and builders. If they did, then the WSMs would have been more "workshop" friendly instead of organized like a sterile index.
Read Jon's post above (and marton's too):
Originally Posted by jon928se
I have the hardcopy 9 vols and Jims masterpiece. I tend to find I only refer to the WSM after the second website has left me still pondering. (For clarification - read 1st choice website then read 2nd choice website then read WSM)
The bottom line is that for every 1 hour of work you do on the car, you end up spending 5+ hours gathering the precise information you need for doing it because it is not located where you would normally expect it to be (In the WSMs).
Drifting
Joined: Nov 2001
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From: zürich, switzerland
Hi JKelly,
well written.
As Erkka wrote;
Try to read these instructions in the WSM, page 39 - 53; so do you use a 5.1mm shim or a 5.3mm??
Marton
well written.
As Erkka wrote;
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Shims and circlip at front of torque tube need to be set correctly they were deleted in '85 MY reason was that improper installation could cause problems
Marton
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From: Boulder Creek, CA
I posted a similar rant about the WSMs a couple years ago. Yes, it can be hard to find stuff in there, but after a while you kind of learn where stuff is. Eventually, you will have flipped through so much of it that you will start to remember the general location of things.