U-Shaped fuel line between rails?
10-26-2006, 05:06 PM
#16
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Ryan,
Absolutly right - if you are not qualified to do it go to a proffesional.
In my case I want to do it myself and will take all the care that is needed to replace the hoses on my cars properly.
If I am not 100% satisfied I will go down another avenue.
The last thing I need is a fire that can totally destroy my car in less than 10 mins.
Roger
Absolutly right - if you are not qualified to do it go to a proffesional.
In my case I want to do it myself and will take all the care that is needed to replace the hoses on my cars properly.
If I am not 100% satisfied I will go down another avenue.
The last thing I need is a fire that can totally destroy my car in less than 10 mins.
Roger
__________________
Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
George Layton March 2014
928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
George Layton March 2014928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
10-26-2006, 05:10 PM
#17
Captain Obvious
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Originally Posted by RyanPerrella
yes Roger you certianly have a point, you could do it 1000 times and 999 times you wouldnt have a leak, pretty good odds but when i mentioned that i thought they would fail, i wasnt thinking so much the first time you do it and install, rather a yea down the road when you replace injectors, or repaint your intake manifold or something else after youve forgotten about it or sold the car to someone that dosent know. Yes it will work but for a hose that can destroy a car and possibly you i would try afwul hard to have them professionally replaced before doing something with screw to tighten clamps.
I think for the most part the only thing that should be recomended is that it be replaced by a professional supplier. There are some on Rennlist that dont have experience with this type of thing and may not know much about cars in general. As for suggestion i think it should only be suggested to replace properly, but someone with their own experience and wisdom, if they think there is another alternative they obviously can decide to use that method.
I think for the most part the only thing that should be recomended is that it be replaced by a professional supplier. There are some on Rennlist that dont have experience with this type of thing and may not know much about cars in general. As for suggestion i think it should only be suggested to replace properly, but someone with their own experience and wisdom, if they think there is another alternative they obviously can decide to use that method.
Ryan,
No offence but I don’t think you know what you’re talking about. Your theory is based on the fact that if it came like that form the factory, then it must stay that way.
There is absolutely nothing wrong using fuel injection hose clamps. Vast majority of car manufacturers have and are still using FI claps. If you use the proper sized clamp then there is no way in hell it will even fail. I guarantee if tested, the hose will fail way before the clamps. The same goes for FI hose too. They are rated and designed for fuel injection applications and are suitable replacement for the 928.
10-26-2006, 06:28 PM
#18
Nordschleife Master
well i am not a fuel supply engineer you got me there. I am sure someone in the Porsche factory is though. yes as i said you can do whatever you want with your car. I do know i have seen a number of 928 catch fire, be it from leaking AC refrigerant, PS hoses, or fuel lines. I dont know why you would skimp on those parts, sure they dont need to be porsche, but i think they should have the same fitting, and yes i think just slipping a peice of new hose over a barb fitting and clamping it down is most definately a poor replacement for the original. Especially thos fittings that go from the somewhat stable chasis to the rocking engine, i sure as hell dont trust a hose clamp to keep my lines from seperating. Yeah like i said sure it will probably work, but i wouldnt suggest it. And if you look at my original post, i said i wouldnt suggest it.
Knock yourself out, when i saw that my devek engine had such a fuel line fitted, i immediately removed it.
To each his own, its your car, you probably have more experience with barbfittings for fuel lines then i do thats for sure. I just wouldnt use them on the fuel rails as you are suggesting. Its another point of view that i think someone should hear when they need to make this decision.
Knock yourself out, when i saw that my devek engine had such a fuel line fitted, i immediately removed it.
To each his own, its your car, you probably have more experience with barbfittings for fuel lines then i do thats for sure. I just wouldnt use them on the fuel rails as you are suggesting. Its another point of view that i think someone should hear when they need to make this decision.
10-26-2006, 06:42 PM
#19
Nordschleife Master
the reason i am against this, the one i saw installed, the hose clamps were loose, simple as that, sure when you install them they are tight, but they stretch, enough so that the hose will now swivel across the barb fitting. If it was seated correctly it shouldnt rotate on the metal barb, if properly seated it shouldnt move PERIOD. If you do decide to go for this, i would make a mental note to check them every year at least to make sure there is still enough bite on that clamp
10-26-2006, 07:36 PM
#21
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Not to get involved in the EFI fuel line/clamp vs worm gear debate but.............
PET shows this line as 928110271 02
928 Int shows new and used availability
928 SP shows new availability
PET shows this line as 928110271 02
928 Int shows new and used availability
928 SP shows new availability
10-27-2006, 11:24 AM
#23
Burning Brakes
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Properly installed FI clamps are just as reliable as crimped connections.
Just about every European manufacturer uses them somewhere on the fuel system.
But back to the topic at hand, you might need to go to a "real" hydraulics shop in your area - the local auto parts store that makes hoses may, or may not, have the correct fittings.
Or, if you know what you are doing and feel comfortable doing it, rebuild it yorself using properly sized EFI clamps.
If you are paranoid about the clamps coming loose, just get a proper size Oetiker clamp - that will *never* come off until you cut it off.
Greg
Just about every European manufacturer uses them somewhere on the fuel system.
But back to the topic at hand, you might need to go to a "real" hydraulics shop in your area - the local auto parts store that makes hoses may, or may not, have the correct fittings.
Or, if you know what you are doing and feel comfortable doing it, rebuild it yorself using properly sized EFI clamps.
If you are paranoid about the clamps coming loose, just get a proper size Oetiker clamp - that will *never* come off until you cut it off.
Greg
10-27-2006, 01:03 PM
#24
Captain Obvious
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Originally Posted by RyanPerrella
the reason i am against this, the one i saw installed, the hose clamps were loose, simple as that, sure when you install them they are tight, but they stretch, enough so that the hose will now swivel across the barb fitting. If it was seated correctly it shouldnt rotate on the metal barb, if properly seated it shouldnt move PERIOD. If you do decide to go for this, i would make a mental note to check them every year at least to make sure there is still enough bite on that clamp
I think I can finally see where your concerns are really coming from. The hose clamps that you saw must have been too big for the application and when tightened they didn’t fully compress the hose. This has nothing to do with their performance and everything to do with proper installation. Proper sized FI clamps are just as good as the OE cramped fittings. This mistake can just as easily made by a shop that installs the crimped fittings. FI clamps will not stretch, worm gear style clamps can. The bottom line is that worm clamps can’t safely hold enough pressure to be used in FI applications The clamp you saw on your replacement engine, was it FI or just the regular worm?
Here is a link to the FI clamps: http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h...lr%3D%26sa%3DG
And another for the worm gear style clamps (scroll down the page to see it): http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=h...l%3Den%26lr%3D
10-28-2006, 03:55 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by RyanPerrella
, and yes i think just slipping a peice of new hose over a barb fitting and clamping it down is most definately a poor replacement for the original. .
I was pretty amazed at what apeared to be a pretty ugly looking hose that turned out to be an aboslute SOB to remove from the fitting.
The stock hoses are very tough! but hey, 20yrs in an engine will take its toll on anything so replace them when you can.
I replaced all mine using steel brained fuel injection line. I only did this as i had hoses routed in different locations than stock. Plain old rated FI line from Pepboys is tough stuff and should be more than adequate. ! I used all the stock fittings and had them all slip fitted then crimped on.
10-28-2006, 10:09 AM
#26
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Tony,
You are dead right there is nothing special about a crimped ferrule over a barb and a clamp is in IMOO a better solution. Out of interest on the Jag V12 fuel system its a hose pushed over the barb no clamp or ferrule.
The big issue for us all is to replace the hoses ASAP. If they are NLA the EFI hose and clamp route is the way to go.
You are dead right there is nothing special about a crimped ferrule over a barb and a clamp is in IMOO a better solution. Out of interest on the Jag V12 fuel system its a hose pushed over the barb no clamp or ferrule.
The big issue for us all is to replace the hoses ASAP. If they are NLA the EFI hose and clamp route is the way to go.
10-28-2006, 11:15 AM
#28
Burning Brakes
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Several companies offer 'push-on' connectors. These are exactly what you might think, barbed fitting and a specific type of hose.
They are rated for apps up to 200 PSI (and up) depending on who you get them from (Earl's, Aeroquip, Fragola, etc...).
They are rated for apps up to 200 PSI (and up) depending on who you get them from (Earl's, Aeroquip, Fragola, etc...).
10-29-2006, 01:07 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by the flyin' scotsman
Not to get involved in the EFI fuel line/clamp vs worm gear debate but.............
PET shows this line as 928110271 02
928 Int shows new and used availability
928 SP shows new availability
PET shows this line as 928110271 02
928 Int shows new and used availability
928 SP shows new availability
HH
10-31-2006, 08:20 PM
#30
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Well this topic intrigued me enough to go a step further.
I took one of the hoses that runs between the fuel rails at the front of the engine (from a GTS) and cut away the ferrule. What I thought was a ferrule anyway.
The collar is purely cosmetic and made of very thin gauge metal. It is in no way an integral part of the hose end fitting and does not swage the hose on to the barbed fitting.
Infact if you go and check your hoses you will find that the collar spins freely on the hose end.
Same on a new one.
So the Porsche factory hose has a push fit barbed connector just like the Jag V12 I mentioned earlier in the thread.
This would make the EFI hose with the EFI clamp a far more superior solution to those of us paranoid about toasted 928's.
I am going to look further into getting the correct EFI hose with a S/S braided layer to help against rubbing. I will follow up when I have more info.
I took one of the hoses that runs between the fuel rails at the front of the engine (from a GTS) and cut away the ferrule. What I thought was a ferrule anyway.
The collar is purely cosmetic and made of very thin gauge metal. It is in no way an integral part of the hose end fitting and does not swage the hose on to the barbed fitting.
Infact if you go and check your hoses you will find that the collar spins freely on the hose end.
Same on a new one.
So the Porsche factory hose has a push fit barbed connector just like the Jag V12 I mentioned earlier in the thread.
This would make the EFI hose with the EFI clamp a far more superior solution to those of us paranoid about toasted 928's.
I am going to look further into getting the correct EFI hose with a S/S braided layer to help against rubbing. I will follow up when I have more info.