Rob Edwards

I'm now well into day 2 on the motor mount/gasket odyssey, and I'm stumped. I simply cannot get the crossmember with the heat shields and motor mounts lined up and back into place. Hell, I can't even do it it with the heat shields removed. I even pulled the lower shock bolt and lowered the passenger side LCA so I don't have to maneuver the crossmember over the LCA bushing, and I still can't get it!
Looking at the anchor mounts (sourced from Carl), it seems like they sit at a greater angle when bolted into the housing compared to the original mounts (which were crushed down to 63.5 mm....) So, when I bolt the mounts and their housings up onto the block mounting flanges loosely, the bottom studs of the mounts are placed too wide to slip into the holes on the crossmember. I dremeled off about 4 thread's worth of stud on each lower mount but I still cannot line everything up.

FWIW, the crossmember alone lines up nicely, and the oil pan is nice 'n shiny, so at least I 've got that going for me.....

Anyone who has done the anchor mounts run into this issue?

-Rob

the flyin' scotsman

Rob............BTDT; its a pain especially on your own but it shall go in. The new mounts rubber are very ungiving hence the reluctance to move.

Use bigger persaision tools.

docmirror

Let's give it a try. If the MM are tight on the X member, loosen them so they can move around. Jack the engine up quite a way. A good check is if the intake is level wiht the top cross brace. If the engine is hanging down, it'll interfere with setting the lower X member.

Now, what I did was to start with the X member on my chest, and angled toward the back of he car. Then I pushed, and jibbled it so it fit past the PS lines and stuff on the drivers side. It's a tight fit, but it will go. The key is to have the MM loose and the heat shields too. so it's kind of slide up with the X member tilted back, then kinda rotate it forward as you push it up. A few pry bars help a lot. Once you have it nestled up near the bolt hoels, then get the MM bolts ready and see if you can start one on each side. Eventually the X member bolts will be somewhat lined up. You can use a long punch tool to get them lined up close enough to catch threads.

Hope this helps some. Keep the engine high, and tilt the X member from back to forward with the MM loose in the holes.

Doc

auzivision

Without being to technical… Are you saying the up/down MM bolts won’t line up east to west so you can’t maneuver your crossmember north and south? With everything loose, it shouldn’t be a problem. I just did it myself a couple weekends ago. Are you sure you don’t have your left and right criss crossed? I not sure that is possible if you have already made connections to the block (loosely, yeah you said that). Another guess is maybe you engine had settled so far that it needs a little more lifting first. I’m just rambling out loud, maybe a few pictures would help. Actually, if I remember correctly. I had the MM loosely attached to the crossmember with all the other top junk attached tightly. Once I got the member in, I used a small screwdriver to align the bolt on the block.

auzivision

Not sure if my last message was clear. Fist you connect to crossmember… then you connect to block.

the flyin' scotsman

I do recall having to lift the engine more also as the new mounts have the engine considerably higher in the bay.

That, the bigger pry bars and/or some helping hands.

I all else fails a cold brew or 3 tonight and re-attack tomorrow.

chaadster

John (deliriousga) shared a tip with me at SITM this year, which he also posted in this thread:

https://rennlist.com/forums/928-forum/282280-motor-mounts-crossmember-aligning-made-a-little-easier.html

I still haven't done the job, so I don't know if this is exactly your issue, but it sounds like it.

FlyingDog

Yup. and will solve your problem.

ROG100

Rob,
You need a bigger FH.
A tapered punch can help.
Chaadsters tip could be the answer.
I to have that stored away for my next MM R&R.
Don't despair it will work.
Roger

whitefox

I wouldnt have busted the dremel out, everything fit perfect at one time so obviously something else is wrong.

Rob Edwards

Still fighting with it, no joy. Roger- is FH short for BFH?

Dr Bob came down yesterday and helped with the disassembly- it sure came apart easily enough!

I think the engine is high enough (see pic) , in fact if it's too high I could imagine how the bottom stud of the motor mounts might be splayed too far

I think I disproved my own theory about the angle of the new mounts in the housings being different (see pictures) they look pretty similar.

Ah well, I will keep plugging.

EDIT: I think I'm ok dremeling the MM studs, i cut them to the same length as those on the factory MM.

Rob Edwards

Argh. I got close, had both motor mounts up and close to being 'in', but the flanges of the motor mount housings were really scraping the edge of the oil pan on the way up, and the housing flanges (where they bolt to the block) were not flat against the engine block mounting flanges. Even poking around with a tapered drift I couldn't get the LCA's lined up enough to start any bolts. So I pulled the crossmember out, washed the PS fluid out of my hair and am calling it a day.

So 16 hrs yesterday + 12hrs today is enough for one weekend. I'm going to have beer and think about work Fortunately, the family's gone till Tuesday PM, so there's still time to give it another shot. (Work? what work?)

But one more question: Once the mounts are on the crossmember, and the crossmember is raised into position, what is the first bolt that one puts back in? Pirtles instructions sound like you tighten the mounts to the block (step 32), then loosely bolt up the lower control arms, fore and aft (step 34) But which one first?

Any other suggestions warmly welcomed, and yes, I'm an idiot for trying this solo. All those who've done this solo and can still say it's easier than a TB/WP:


Anyone in SoCal want to help with a remedial motor mount installation tomorrow or Tuesday? Another pair of hands would be awesome for pulling things into line, and I'd happily reciprocate anytime! I'm looking for someone not afraid to use a BFH- hey, it won't be YOUR car.....

dr bob

Rob--

I have a dentist appointment then a telecon with a client in Fla, after which I can get with you to finish.

In the phone call theis afternoon, we talked about leaving the lower nuts on the mounts loose before lifting the crossmember into place. The alternative is to lift the crossmember up so it is resting on the rear LCA bushings, then lift the motor mounts up separately and drop them into the holes in the crossmember. You can then pry/push/align the top of the MM with the block and get the short bolts started. Push the crossmember up, and get the two rear bolts started into the frame. One on each site, these are the 10mm bolts (17mm head) about 2-3" long, and they don't go through anything else on the way tight. Just get them started, and then put a little jack praessure on the crossmember to get it up close. The longer MM bolts go in now, and get the nuts started on the bottom of the MMs, through crossmember. then the crossmember goes up with the jack so you can adjust the height easily. Those bastid upper bolts go in now, one on each side. Tap them in from the front, the nut goes on the rear end of each one. You can use a tapered punch or a smaller version of that skinny rollhead bar to help align them, but raising the crossmember up to position included engaging the bosses around the two bolts you started into the frame. With that it should be real close, easily close enough to get those upper bolts in and snug.

After that ordeal, it will just be a matter of tightening the bolts through the MMs to the block, then adjusting the height of the engine down some to get the motor mounts just resting on the crossmember. Snug the lower nuts on the MMs, and they should be just right with everything tightened.

Move the jack over under each of the LCA's so you can put the bushing supports back in. Go ahead and torque the support cap bolts now, and torque the two rear bolts in the crossmember that you had loose before. Then the two upper bastid bolts get torqued. The wiring harnes bolt goes in soon, the 6mm capcscrew with the nut on the bottom of the crossmember.

I'll call your home first then you pager when I have a good idea when I can break loose up here. The fla guys give up their day at 5 east coast time so I should be done here NLT 2pm pacific time. If I leave Glendale much later than 4pm, it may be tuesday breakfast time when I get there...

All this presumes that I can get a play-day dispensation from my scheduling coordinator...

Rob Edwards

Bob-

If you can get permission from SWMBO, that would be fantastic! I have to interview a potential new technician hire at 10AM and then will probably go play hooky and get back under the car. I've printed out your protocol above and will give it another try.

FWIW, I think I tried every possible permutation and order of lifting the crossmember +/- mounts +/- heat shields. Something in the geometry of the mounts is screwy, and I'm just blind from looking at them all day (The back of my head is sore from lying on the ground......)

It's just a car, it's just a car, it's just a car.....

killav

This is next on my list to tackle so I don't have first hand experience yet. But, is the pin on the top of the MM located correctly? If the pin is not dropping into the hole, it would **** the MM. I don't think it serves any other function other than stopping the MM from spinning while you tighten the bolts.

Mike
1987 S4 Auto