Install yoiur own piston squirter
07-08-2018, 11:00 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Interesting stuff. My only exposure to squirters is in the Miata 1.6 and 1.8 units. Check valves are not apparent, the units are banjo bolted into the main gallery. Some who fit forged pistons delete them , not sure why they bother. Mine is lightly boosted (215 rwhp), but due to an instance of a stuck pressure relief valve now cant manage more than ~30psi hot at any revs. So far its done a couple of years like this up tp 7200rpm, just waiting for it die, with a rebuild waiting to install.
jp 83 Euro S AT 57k
jp 83 Euro S AT 57k
07-09-2018, 07:10 AM
#17
Nordschleife Master
John,
I did all the testing possible, but I can't share my data since its proprietary and the rebuildable squirter patent cost me a lot of money. I essentially perfected the factory squirter that somehow Porsche neglected to do in 40 years of research. Sure, you can fit a higher spring rate, but the flow gets strange after a certain point and your quest for zero leakage at idle compromises the full open flow, which is much more important than idle, where you spend mere moments of a drive at. In a race car - forget about it. Delete the check valve altogether.
I did all the testing possible, but I can't share my data since its proprietary and the rebuildable squirter patent cost me a lot of money. I essentially perfected the factory squirter that somehow Porsche neglected to do in 40 years of research. Sure, you can fit a higher spring rate, but the flow gets strange after a certain point and your quest for zero leakage at idle compromises the full open flow, which is much more important than idle, where you spend mere moments of a drive at. In a race car - forget about it. Delete the check valve altogether.
Does the flow get “weird” with higher supply pressures regardless of the spring or only with a stiffer spring? The same diameter nozzle is going to need a longer flow calming section in the end with higher supply pressure if the goal is to produce a laminar and not turbulent spray jet. However, we’re not feeding an oil gallery here so the spray pattern probably doesn’t matter much here.
I get the proprietary nature of the data, thanks for posting as much as you already have.
07-09-2018, 07:18 AM
#18
Nordschleife Master
Interesting stuff. My only exposure to squirters is in the Miata 1.6 and 1.8 units. Check valves are not apparent, the units are banjo bolted into the main gallery. Some who fit forged pistons delete them , not sure why they bother. Mine is lightly boosted (215 rwhp), but due to an instance of a stuck pressure relief valve now cant manage more than ~30psi hot at any revs. So far its done a couple of years like this up tp 7200rpm, just waiting for it die, with a rebuild waiting to install.
jp 83 Euro S AT 57k
jp 83 Euro S AT 57k
07-09-2018, 12:19 PM
#19
Banned
I’m not too worried about a little oil flow at idle. However, I would like the mains and rods to be prioritized when the pickup sucks air in the corner. That’s why I’m interested in higher pressure spring.
Does the flow get “weird” with higher supply pressures regardless of the spring or only with a stiffer spring? The same diameter nozzle is going to need a longer flow calming section in the end with higher supply pressure if the goal is to produce a laminar and not turbulent spray jet. However, we’re not feeding an oil gallery here so the spray pattern probably doesn’t matter much here.
I get the proprietary nature of the data, thanks for posting as much as you already have.
That is my concern..
07-09-2018, 01:26 PM
#20
Rennlist
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Porsche used piston squirters in the early 1987 928 models and then stopped doing this, from mid 1987 all the way to the end of production. Since piston squirters continued in the 911 models, it's not too difficult to logic that either they found out that the squirters were either unnecessary or produced some sort of undesirable result in the 928 application....why else stop?
In my testing of the 928 engine, either reason could be valid. There is certainly a huge volume of oil thrown up into the oil filler neck area at higher rpms in the 928 engine....this has to be repeated all along the length of the crankshaft. Additional oil is, most likely, unnecessary. The other factor is that at high rpms, the oil sump has very minimal oil in reserve. Removing any additional volume is, most likely, a bad idea.
As Catorce has mentioned, the dry sump oil system in the 911 application is very efficient and the reserve oil quantity isn't an issue, whereas the 928 4 valve engine has always had "issues" with reserve oil volume.
In my testing of the 928 engine, either reason could be valid. There is certainly a huge volume of oil thrown up into the oil filler neck area at higher rpms in the 928 engine....this has to be repeated all along the length of the crankshaft. Additional oil is, most likely, unnecessary. The other factor is that at high rpms, the oil sump has very minimal oil in reserve. Removing any additional volume is, most likely, a bad idea.
As Catorce has mentioned, the dry sump oil system in the 911 application is very efficient and the reserve oil quantity isn't an issue, whereas the 928 4 valve engine has always had "issues" with reserve oil volume.
07-09-2018, 02:30 PM
#21
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From Rennlist 2004 about OEM 928 oil squirters:
"If you need them we can get them...a stock porsche turbo/968 part!
A very limited number of 928 had them installed. Porsche eliminated them due to too much windage from oil splashing.
Good for dry sumped engines, or ones with very deep sumps.....or boosted one."
Marc
DEVEK
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Marc
"If you need them we can get them...a stock porsche turbo/968 part!
A very limited number of 928 had them installed. Porsche eliminated them due to too much windage from oil splashing.
Good for dry sumped engines, or ones with very deep sumps.....or boosted one."
Marc
DEVEK
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Marc
Last edited by Strosek Ultra; 07-10-2018 at 04:37 AM.
07-09-2018, 02:37 PM
#22
Nordschleife Master
From Rennlist 2004 about OEM 928 oil squirters:
If you need them we can get them...a stock porsche turbo/968 part!
A very limited number of 928 had them installed. Porsche eliminated them due to too much windage from oil splashing.
Good for dry sumped engines, or ones with very deep sumps.....or boosted one.
Marc
DEVEK
__________________
Marc
If you need them we can get them...a stock porsche turbo/968 part!
A very limited number of 928 had them installed. Porsche eliminated them due to too much windage from oil splashing.
Good for dry sumped engines, or ones with very deep sumps.....or boosted one.
Marc
DEVEK
__________________
Marc
07-09-2018, 04:32 PM
#24
Nordschleife Master
07-10-2018, 04:15 AM
#25
Rennlist Member
Forgot to mention about the Miata motors - they came stock with a windage tray. Early engines were 80% of length of the pan, later were full length. Not sure of the change date. The way they are sandwiched between the block and the cast alloy pan makes them a pain to get off, especially in the car. With no gasket, and Yamabond (or similar) they are dead easy to get leakproof.
jp 83 Euro S AT 57k
jp 83 Euro S AT 57k
07-10-2018, 12:29 PM
#26
Banned
As a side note to adding piston squirters to a car that doesn't already have them, I have sold a few of mine to a major builder of big power Subaru motors. They turn those little STi water boxers into 4-500hp beasts and they are using my squirters in those little turbo 4 bangers. That car has no squirters as stock either.
07-18-2018, 03:13 AM
#30
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Åke