The Twin Screw Thread
12-13-2005, 09:03 PM
#136
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This is what I have
FMS (Bosch Design II) 30lb injectors Ford Part # FMS-M9593B302
FMS (Bosch Design II) 30lb injectors Ford Part # FMS-M9593B302
Originally Posted by FlyingDog
I just did some googling. Ford seems to use several different specs, but their 19, 24, 30, and 36 lb injectors seem to be rated at 43.5psi which is the same as the 3bar Bosch uses. The flow rates should be the same, which makes sense since Bosch makes the Ford injectors. If somebody has the Bosch part number for the Ford injectors I can check the Bosch spec.
12-13-2005, 09:20 PM
#137
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Originally Posted by Daryl
Tony
Are you running 36 to 38 lbs fuel pressure at idle? My idle pressure is 29 to 30 lbs. I understood that 29 to 30 lbs to be the number to strive for.
Are the injectors you are using the same ones that some of us are buying from Summit Racing part #M-9593-B-302 #30? My understanding is that these are actually 24 or 25 lb injectors.
Just trying to clear up misunderstandings as we go here. This is information I got first hand from Andy last Aug/Sept. when I did my install.
Are you running 36 to 38 lbs fuel pressure at idle? My idle pressure is 29 to 30 lbs. I understood that 29 to 30 lbs to be the number to strive for.
Are the injectors you are using the same ones that some of us are buying from Summit Racing part #M-9593-B-302 #30? My understanding is that these are actually 24 or 25 lb injectors.
Just trying to clear up misunderstandings as we go here. This is information I got first hand from Andy last Aug/Sept. when I did my install.
These are the 30# injectors that you want from summit. The have red tops to them. Any 30# injectors in a kit sold by Andy will most likely be using these:
http://store.summitracing.com/defaul...=egnsearch.asp
The 24# injectors that summit sells have a light blue top. I know because I have bought and used both of them.
12-13-2005, 09:22 PM
#138
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Originally Posted by Daryl
Tony
Are you running 36 to 38 lbs fuel pressure at idle? My idle pressure is 29 to 30 lbs. I understood that 29 to 30 lbs to be the number to strive for.
Are the injectors you are using the same ones that some of us are buying from Summit Racing part #M-9593-B-302 #30? My understanding is that these are actually 24 or 25 lb injectors.
Just trying to clear up misunderstandings as we go here. This is information I got first hand from Andy last Aug/Sept. when I did my install.
Are you running 36 to 38 lbs fuel pressure at idle? My idle pressure is 29 to 30 lbs. I understood that 29 to 30 lbs to be the number to strive for.
Are the injectors you are using the same ones that some of us are buying from Summit Racing part #M-9593-B-302 #30? My understanding is that these are actually 24 or 25 lb injectors.
Just trying to clear up misunderstandings as we go here. This is information I got first hand from Andy last Aug/Sept. when I did my install.
Tony is using 24# injectors, so he'll naturally have a higher fuel pressure to achieve the same thing that you are trying to do with 30# injectors.
12-13-2005, 09:23 PM
#139
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Originally Posted by Warren928
Mike,
I don't know how the this one pulley he sent me is supposed to do complete the groupo, Andy never sent me instructions or comments.
BUT if it were going to go on the outside of the stock crank pulley, what does the v-belt part go to? Maybe the last accesory driven from the crankshaft...?
Q- Is the crank pulley a different offset or diameter for the whipple/autorotor than it is the Eaton/Jag?
I don't know how the this one pulley he sent me is supposed to do complete the groupo, Andy never sent me instructions or comments.
BUT if it were going to go on the outside of the stock crank pulley, what does the v-belt part go to? Maybe the last accesory driven from the crankshaft...?
Q- Is the crank pulley a different offset or diameter for the whipple/autorotor than it is the Eaton/Jag?
Warren the first v-belt groove on the pulley from Andy is for the A/C belt. It looks like the pulley you have is a two piece design, similar to the stock pullies.
The one I have for the whipple is a one piece design that has a v-belt for the A/C and the rest are ribbed belts. It also comes wth replacement pulley for the power steering pump. I did not have one for the smog pump since I was not using it. HTH
12-13-2005, 09:25 PM
#140
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FMS-M-9593-B302 $204.88
Estimated Ship Date: Tomorrow
Warnings Application Show All
Brand: Ford Racing Performance Parts
Product Line: Ford Racing High Flow Fuel Injectors
Injector Advertised Flow Rate (lbs/hr): 30
Injector Advertised Flow Rate (cc/min): 309
Quantity: Sold as a set of 8.
Injector Impedance: 11-18 ohms
Driver Type: 12V saturated circuit
Overall Height (in): 3.045
Seat to Seat Height (in): 2.563
Manifold O-Ring Outside Diameter (in): 0.545
Fuel Rail O-Ring Outside Diameter (in): 0.523
Outside Diameter (in): 0.982
Injector Plug Style: Bosch/Amp Style
Wiring Harness Included: No
O-Rings Included: Yes
Estimated Ship Date: Tomorrow
Warnings Application Show All
Brand: Ford Racing Performance Parts
Product Line: Ford Racing High Flow Fuel Injectors
Injector Advertised Flow Rate (lbs/hr): 30
Injector Advertised Flow Rate (cc/min): 309
Quantity: Sold as a set of 8.
Injector Impedance: 11-18 ohms
Driver Type: 12V saturated circuit
Overall Height (in): 3.045
Seat to Seat Height (in): 2.563
Manifold O-Ring Outside Diameter (in): 0.545
Fuel Rail O-Ring Outside Diameter (in): 0.523
Outside Diameter (in): 0.982
Injector Plug Style: Bosch/Amp Style
Wiring Harness Included: No
O-Rings Included: Yes
12-13-2005, 09:29 PM
#141
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They're either rated at 39 or 43.5psi. If they're rated at 43.5, they're the same as regular Bosch/Porsche. If they're rated at 39psi, they'll flow slightly more than the standard Bosch/Porsche injectors. The Jeep sites all say the FMS/SVO injectors are rated at 39psi. FiveO says their injectors are rated at 43.5psi. My Bosch reference file only has Bosch part numbers, not Ford numbers to cross reference.
12-13-2005, 09:30 PM
#142
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Originally Posted by Warren928
Mike,
I don't know how the this one pulley he sent me is supposed to do complete the groupo, Andy never sent me instructions or comments.
BUT if it were going to go on the outside of the stock crank pulley, what does the v-belt part go to? Maybe the last accesory driven from the crankshaft...?
Q- Is the crank pulley a different offset or diameter for the whipple/autorotor than it is the Eaton/Jag?
I don't know how the this one pulley he sent me is supposed to do complete the groupo, Andy never sent me instructions or comments.
BUT if it were going to go on the outside of the stock crank pulley, what does the v-belt part go to? Maybe the last accesory driven from the crankshaft...?
Q- Is the crank pulley a different offset or diameter for the whipple/autorotor than it is the Eaton/Jag?
Your first question:
From the looks of what you have, the largest circular pulley is for the AC (IIRC), and the smaller ribbed pulley bolted to it is for the SC. Now, my question is if you can take the stock pulley, place it inside the center of the SC pulley, and bolt the whole thing up as 1 piece. Does that make sense? I'm thinking if he mentioned something about blocking the smog pump, that's because when you put the stock pulley inside of the SC pulley - the SC pulley will block the rib used for the smog pump. Does that make any sense? This is ALL speculation. I have never seen that pulley design before, and haven't specifically asked Andy about it... but its the only thing that makes sense to me at the moment.
Your second question:
The "normal" pullies (blue anodized ones that most of us got) work on both the autorotor and jag/eaton superchargers. I assume the pulley you have will work the same as well.
12-13-2005, 09:48 PM
#143
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Mike,
Can you clarify this business about the #30 Red injectors actually being 25 lb in our application? Andy told me to use this figure when talking to John about fueling.
Can you clarify this business about the #30 Red injectors actually being 25 lb in our application? Andy told me to use this figure when talking to John about fueling.
12-14-2005, 02:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Daryl
Mike,
Can you clarify this business about the #30 Red injectors actually being 25 lb in our application? Andy told me to use this figure when talking to John about fueling.
Can you clarify this business about the #30 Red injectors actually being 25 lb in our application? Andy told me to use this figure when talking to John about fueling.
12-14-2005, 01:01 PM
#145
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Sorry about the confusion Mike,
I thought you would get what I was saying by following the previous threads. I am seeing this thread as an opportunity for all of us with supercharged cars to really get to understand how all of the components work together as well as learn what others are doing to improve there cars. I am looking to you because you have been kind enough to participate on this thread and I think you have the most knowledge of all of us about the different combinations Andy offered.
In my mind proper fueling is now the most important aspect of what we are doing and we need to understand exactly what is doing on with our cars. I don’t want to be a pain in the *** about this, I am just trying to have a clear and through understanding about what is occurring in my car. I understand that 14.7 air/fuel is great for cruise and 12.5 is great for wide open throttle and this is what I am achieving. But to be totally frank. My car just sounds a little off at idle and when in park under light increase in rpm to about 2000 rpm I can feel a slight roughness and I can hear it in the exhaust note. Most people would not notice or possibly care and I was prepared to live with it myself, but I am hoping that through this thread I can learn more. I am now interested in playing with injectors, computers, and total engine management. I didn’t know a dam thing about these things but that’s exactly what I said when I bought my first 928. In email conversations with John Speakes It became apparent that he needed this information in order to offer an option, so I am thinking this is critical information to those interested in improving the drivability of our cars over the total rpm range. I am trying to understand why Andy told me the red #30 injectors which every one believes to be 30 lbs are actually 25 lbs. in our application. Sorry about rambling on.
Tony, thank you for your thorough write up on the BEIG. The only thing mysterious about all of this is the lack of knowledge and understanding.
I just love these happy faces!
I thought you would get what I was saying by following the previous threads. I am seeing this thread as an opportunity for all of us with supercharged cars to really get to understand how all of the components work together as well as learn what others are doing to improve there cars. I am looking to you because you have been kind enough to participate on this thread and I think you have the most knowledge of all of us about the different combinations Andy offered.
In my mind proper fueling is now the most important aspect of what we are doing and we need to understand exactly what is doing on with our cars. I don’t want to be a pain in the *** about this, I am just trying to have a clear and through understanding about what is occurring in my car. I understand that 14.7 air/fuel is great for cruise and 12.5 is great for wide open throttle and this is what I am achieving. But to be totally frank. My car just sounds a little off at idle and when in park under light increase in rpm to about 2000 rpm I can feel a slight roughness and I can hear it in the exhaust note. Most people would not notice or possibly care and I was prepared to live with it myself, but I am hoping that through this thread I can learn more. I am now interested in playing with injectors, computers, and total engine management. I didn’t know a dam thing about these things but that’s exactly what I said when I bought my first 928. In email conversations with John Speakes It became apparent that he needed this information in order to offer an option, so I am thinking this is critical information to those interested in improving the drivability of our cars over the total rpm range. I am trying to understand why Andy told me the red #30 injectors which every one believes to be 30 lbs are actually 25 lbs. in our application. Sorry about rambling on.
Tony, thank you for your thorough write up on the BEIG. The only thing mysterious about all of this is the lack of knowledge and understanding.
I just love these happy faces!
12-14-2005, 01:30 PM
#146
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The next question is the bypass valve.
Is it adjustable and how?
I had several instances where my car would dump all the boost when boost is what I wanted. This usually happened when I put my foot into it at low rpms. If I reved it up a little at part throttle and then slammed it home the bypass wouldn't open. It was a weird phenomenon, that went away after I resealed the manifold.
Is it adjustable and how?
I had several instances where my car would dump all the boost when boost is what I wanted. This usually happened when I put my foot into it at low rpms. If I reved it up a little at part throttle and then slammed it home the bypass wouldn't open. It was a weird phenomenon, that went away after I resealed the manifold.
12-14-2005, 02:01 PM
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Speaking of resealing the manifold............
I got my manifold from Andy preassembled with the intercooler, and powdercoated. Should I dis-assemble it and re-seal the 1/2's before the install?
I got my manifold from Andy preassembled with the intercooler, and powdercoated. Should I dis-assemble it and re-seal the 1/2's before the install?
12-14-2005, 02:15 PM
#148
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Daryl:
Not to be flippant, but 25 or 30, they seem to work properly for most of the setups with the stock 85 regulator. My fuel curve is perfect and yours appears to be too. Be careful that the light throttle off-idle behavior you are observing is not just a characteristic of the stock fuel map. The car may have a slight miss under these conditions. I don't mean to dismiss this if it is more than that, but it easy to notice things you didn't before because you are just paying much closer attention. However, it could be evidence of a slight vacuum leak leaning things out a bit more than normal. How is the idle itself?
Not to be flippant, but 25 or 30, they seem to work properly for most of the setups with the stock 85 regulator. My fuel curve is perfect and yours appears to be too. Be careful that the light throttle off-idle behavior you are observing is not just a characteristic of the stock fuel map. The car may have a slight miss under these conditions. I don't mean to dismiss this if it is more than that, but it easy to notice things you didn't before because you are just paying much closer attention. However, it could be evidence of a slight vacuum leak leaning things out a bit more than normal. How is the idle itself?
Last edited by Bill Ball; 12-14-2005 at 03:14 PM.
12-14-2005, 03:18 PM
#150
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Brian that looks pretty cool 
... Mine came with a mammoth gap between lower plate(s) and IC, but there was a thin bead of sealer inbetween ... you coud see right through. I don't believe you have to undo the whole thing if you'd like to add a nice thin bead around the edge before torqueing?
... Mine came with a mammoth gap between lower plate(s) and IC, but there was a thin bead of sealer inbetween ... you coud see right through. I don't believe you have to undo the whole thing if you'd like to add a nice thin bead around the edge before torqueing?