3.09 ring & pinion
#61
Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Originally Posted by mark kibort
Gosh no! as it is and ive described before, both mark and joe run the 2.72s and can almost hit redling with 500rwhp at 170mph in their 5th gears. after going over this with most everyone earlier, a 3.09 on a GTS box basically buys you a 2.2 gear set to 155mph, giving ratio comparison below.
11.6 for the new 1st
and then its 8.9vs 7.7 for the 2nd vs 1st s4
5.9 vs the 5.53 for the 3rd vs 2nd S4
4.24 vs the 4.17 for the 4th vs 4rd s4
and then the ole 3.2 vs the 3.09 .
as you can see ESPECIALLY IN A RACE application, with no standing starts, a GTS with 3.09 is only good if you want close to S4 ratios over the useable speed range.
All this depends on the hp available. for Road america and 320 rear wheel hp, the 2.2 is kink as far as the best application. at laguna is pretty close, thunderhill and Sears point are ideal for the GTS box.
MK
QUOTE=Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net]Hey Dave C.,
But wouldn't the transmission on a bored & stroked GT2 race car just break the trasnmission more often?
I wonder if the rev limiter would be an issue at Road America in 5th.
Are Mark. A, Joe F. or Don H. running 3.09s? or do they want to?
11.6 for the new 1st
and then its 8.9vs 7.7 for the 2nd vs 1st s4
5.9 vs the 5.53 for the 3rd vs 2nd S4
4.24 vs the 4.17 for the 4th vs 4rd s4
and then the ole 3.2 vs the 3.09 .
as you can see ESPECIALLY IN A RACE application, with no standing starts, a GTS with 3.09 is only good if you want close to S4 ratios over the useable speed range.
All this depends on the hp available. for Road america and 320 rear wheel hp, the 2.2 is kink as far as the best application. at laguna is pretty close, thunderhill and Sears point are ideal for the GTS box.
MK
QUOTE=Stan.Shaw@Excell.Net]Hey Dave C.,
But wouldn't the transmission on a bored & stroked GT2 race car just break the trasnmission more often?
I wonder if the rev limiter would be an issue at Road America in 5th.
Are Mark. A, Joe F. or Don H. running 3.09s? or do they want to?
Mark,
Despite all your theories on this subject. Why dose a car feel significantly faster when the rear end ratio is increased? It can't be an illusion? I had the rerend gears changed on my '93 Trans AM years ago. Went from a 2.73 to 4.11. The car accelerated alot faster then before. I lost a little off the top speed, but I didn't care. I can tell you that you DO sink into the seat more with a taller ratio rear end.
Maybe there is a flaw in your theory or calculations. You know.........just like people used to belived the Earth was flat.
#62
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Originally Posted by Imo000
just like people used to belived the Earth was flat.
#63
928 Collector
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The point I take is that after 1st gear, the gear ratios are almost the same so if a 3.09 ignores 1st, then basically it is unchanged except tht there is no 5th. So essentially you have deleted 5th and added a gear inbetween neutral and 1st. PLEASE PLEASE don't get us started down this road again!!!
#65
Originally Posted by mark kibort
as was said before , any stock s4 has a 8.9:1 first gear than actually can do the burn out better vs the 3.09 in 2nd. (8.9 first vs 8.3 second on the 3.09)
Im not sure you guys are getting it. Its all pretty simple math. dont get caught up with the gear ratio designators like Sniper did (and is). its all about what ratio you have to select.
Mk
Im not sure you guys are getting it. Its all pretty simple math. dont get caught up with the gear ratio designators like Sniper did (and is). its all about what ratio you have to select.
Mk
As was stated previously in this thread(and many times before), the 3.09 car would have a clear advantadge in the 1/4 mile.
#66
Rennlist Member
Heinrich, having a much more clearer way of posting things, JUST said it best.
YOU loose 5th, gain an extra 1st and the rest of the gears are the same. what is so darn hard about understanding this BASIC element of powertrain gearing effectiveness???? Trust us, its very very simple. any percieved gains are strictly just that, preceived. (OF course, unless you have the tires to take advantage of the 50% gain in torque from 0-27mph, which is certainly a possiblity, but the only area where there is a gain in our discussion!)
so, yes, im bringing you back in, as you were the one that was mentioning the "gear for gear" advantages. remember, forget about the gear numbers (what they are called, like "1st, 2nd, etc") look at what ratios you would use at ANY given speed . THATs the answer!
Gents, its not that hard!!!! simple calculator and spec book can verify anything we are discussing.
MK
YOU loose 5th, gain an extra 1st and the rest of the gears are the same. what is so darn hard about understanding this BASIC element of powertrain gearing effectiveness???? Trust us, its very very simple. any percieved gains are strictly just that, preceived. (OF course, unless you have the tires to take advantage of the 50% gain in torque from 0-27mph, which is certainly a possiblity, but the only area where there is a gain in our discussion!)
so, yes, im bringing you back in, as you were the one that was mentioning the "gear for gear" advantages. remember, forget about the gear numbers (what they are called, like "1st, 2nd, etc") look at what ratios you would use at ANY given speed . THATs the answer!
Gents, its not that hard!!!! simple calculator and spec book can verify anything we are discussing.
MK
Originally Posted by m21sniper
Now what did you have to go and drag me back into this far?
As was stated previously in this thread(and many times before), the 3.09 car would have a clear advantadge in the 1/4 mile.
As was stated previously in this thread(and many times before), the 3.09 car would have a clear advantadge in the 1/4 mile.
#68
Rennlist Member
Unfortunately for you, these are not theories. It is the most simple of the physics used.
You say, "feel" faster???? even by your wildest imagination, what could a gear ratio change do? as it is known, it is efficiency that is alll that is changed, as the HP of the engine is not changed with gearing. without getting into the torque hp discussion agian, think of HP is torque to the driven wheels through the gear ratios .
Not to diverge, but talking about "feel" you just heard the answer aobut this. someone did some burnouts in 2nd with the 3.09. Little do some in this discussion know, except Heinrich and I , is that 2nd gear is actually a slightly taller ratio by 4% than the stock S4 1st gear. the gear ratio will tell you EXACTLY the rate of acceleration possible with all other things being equal. Its like saying that putting 10lbs 1ft out on the end of a lever is not 10ft-lbs.
I think the main problem is when folks start talking about the max acceleration in any gear being at max torque, when they should start thinking about max acceleration of a car at that same speed, being at a lower gear at max HP!
go back to your 2.7 vs 4.1:1 rear end change, gear spacing didnt change, but you got a few more gears from 0-30mph though eventuallly, since the gear spacing didnt change, you find a gear that is close to the same ratio and then maybe a 2nd gear that you shift to take you to the end of the 1/4. Its painfully obvoius to me with the 928S4 with and without the 3.09, that you gain a very low 1st gear, that takes you to 25mph, and yes this COULD help, but after 25mph, the gears are all the same , so why is it you could think that there are greater accelerative forces? Just give me a hint of an idea why you or anyone doesnt see how simple and correct the "theories but really facts" are.
Mk
Mark,
Despite all your theories on this subject. Why dose a car feel significantly faster when the rear end ratio is increased? It can't be an illusion? I had the rerend gears changed on my '93 Trans AM years ago. Went from a 2.73 to 4.11. The car accelerated alot faster then before. I lost a little off the top speed, but I didn't care. I can tell you that you DO sink into the seat more with a taller ratio rear end.
Maybe there is a flaw in your theory or calculations. You know.........just like people used to belived the Earth was flat. [/QUOTE]
You say, "feel" faster???? even by your wildest imagination, what could a gear ratio change do? as it is known, it is efficiency that is alll that is changed, as the HP of the engine is not changed with gearing. without getting into the torque hp discussion agian, think of HP is torque to the driven wheels through the gear ratios .
Not to diverge, but talking about "feel" you just heard the answer aobut this. someone did some burnouts in 2nd with the 3.09. Little do some in this discussion know, except Heinrich and I , is that 2nd gear is actually a slightly taller ratio by 4% than the stock S4 1st gear. the gear ratio will tell you EXACTLY the rate of acceleration possible with all other things being equal. Its like saying that putting 10lbs 1ft out on the end of a lever is not 10ft-lbs.
I think the main problem is when folks start talking about the max acceleration in any gear being at max torque, when they should start thinking about max acceleration of a car at that same speed, being at a lower gear at max HP!
go back to your 2.7 vs 4.1:1 rear end change, gear spacing didnt change, but you got a few more gears from 0-30mph though eventuallly, since the gear spacing didnt change, you find a gear that is close to the same ratio and then maybe a 2nd gear that you shift to take you to the end of the 1/4. Its painfully obvoius to me with the 928S4 with and without the 3.09, that you gain a very low 1st gear, that takes you to 25mph, and yes this COULD help, but after 25mph, the gears are all the same , so why is it you could think that there are greater accelerative forces? Just give me a hint of an idea why you or anyone doesnt see how simple and correct the "theories but really facts" are.
Mk
Mark,
Despite all your theories on this subject. Why dose a car feel significantly faster when the rear end ratio is increased? It can't be an illusion? I had the rerend gears changed on my '93 Trans AM years ago. Went from a 2.73 to 4.11. The car accelerated alot faster then before. I lost a little off the top speed, but I didn't care. I can tell you that you DO sink into the seat more with a taller ratio rear end.
Maybe there is a flaw in your theory or calculations. You know.........just like people used to belived the Earth was flat. [/QUOTE]
#69
Rennlist Member
YES YES YES, absolutely positively right.
Mk
Mk
Originally Posted by heinrich
The point I take is that after 1st gear, the gear ratios are almost the same so if a 3.09 ignores 1st, then basically it is unchanged except tht there is no 5th. So essentially you have deleted 5th and added a gear inbetween neutral and 1st. PLEASE PLEASE don't get us started down this road again!!!
#70
Rennlist Member
lets see, i have almost 20,000 miles driven in my S4 in 4 years, and most of this is on the track. if you look at how long im at full throttle vs any one that doesnt visit the track, you would understand that i have a clear sense of enjoyment on the track as well as on the track. just last weekend, i drove to thunderhill, ran a 30min race, and drove 3 hours home, doing 60-100mph about 20 times. At laguna, we had 3 x 30min races, plus practice, plus 2 qualifying. at a 18 lap race, ill run 40 to 110-130mph about 50-60 times. so, thats 150 times for the races, call it 200times on a weekend, or 1600times in a minimal season of racing. most people can count on both hands how often they have hit 100mph in a year.
also, i do drive it on the weekends and drive other folks high performance cars as well. (bmws, vets, ferraris, etc) and what money have i pumped into my car over the last 5 years? besides dyno work, ive added almost nothing to make it faster. you are talking about enjoying your cars on the street. my question becomes how often do you drive around at 25mph and slower? i dont know about you, but i bet is very possible, that very few folks actually floor their cars from stoplights in 1st thoughout the day. usually, its rolling drags and hitting it on the freeway in short bursts. again, you may like the fact that the shifter is pointed near the radiator and you floor it, vs having the exact same acceleration rate when it is pointing more toward the window switches. agian, after 1st, there isnt any difference!!!!! (and you loose 5th, AND you loose some torque of the package in the new 4th going from 118mph to 155mph , which is the new max speed)
I dont know about you, but i drive my car every weekend, and rarely do i like to floor it in 1st, unless im rolling. and when i do, its a touch to not violently spin the wheels. how long would you on average spend in this new first gear on the street anyway??? looking at my standing starts with speedGT, think im in 1st gear for less than 2 seconds.
mk
also, i do drive it on the weekends and drive other folks high performance cars as well. (bmws, vets, ferraris, etc) and what money have i pumped into my car over the last 5 years? besides dyno work, ive added almost nothing to make it faster. you are talking about enjoying your cars on the street. my question becomes how often do you drive around at 25mph and slower? i dont know about you, but i bet is very possible, that very few folks actually floor their cars from stoplights in 1st thoughout the day. usually, its rolling drags and hitting it on the freeway in short bursts. again, you may like the fact that the shifter is pointed near the radiator and you floor it, vs having the exact same acceleration rate when it is pointing more toward the window switches. agian, after 1st, there isnt any difference!!!!! (and you loose 5th, AND you loose some torque of the package in the new 4th going from 118mph to 155mph , which is the new max speed)
I dont know about you, but i drive my car every weekend, and rarely do i like to floor it in 1st, unless im rolling. and when i do, its a touch to not violently spin the wheels. how long would you on average spend in this new first gear on the street anyway??? looking at my standing starts with speedGT, think im in 1st gear for less than 2 seconds.
mk
Originally Posted by 6.0-928S
Everybody who has the 3.09 seems to enjoy it. I wonder why that is?
I like to enjoy my car on the street. I think most guys do. Track time for most of us is minimal. Money spent on a 3.09 set can be enjoyed every day on the street. When you pump money into your race car how much time are you on the track enjoying it? There are other perks in life besides the ones YOU approve of.
Some things can't be measured with a calculator!
Hammer
I like to enjoy my car on the street. I think most guys do. Track time for most of us is minimal. Money spent on a 3.09 set can be enjoyed every day on the street. When you pump money into your race car how much time are you on the track enjoying it? There are other perks in life besides the ones YOU approve of.
Some things can't be measured with a calculator!
Hammer
#71
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Why did Porsche choose a 2:75 on the first 928 and then used the 2:73 for the last 6 years of production on their "fastest" 928's (GT and GTS) vs. the 2:20 if it would produce the same result??
#72
I get what you are saying Mark, but remember, some people live for that 0 - 60 because they can do that legally anywhere, anytime and it is fun. Also, what is the weight of your car compared to a standard S4 ? My car is a boat, and I think all the so called gearing issues could be solved with a six hundred pound diet, which is about what your car weighs, I'll bet. My S4 is an 89, and it has a useful lower overall gearing that is right between 2.2 and 3.06, and I still can see 70 + MPH in second. Close set ratios that top out at 30, 60, 90, 120 and 155 would be ideal for me on the street, and although I may top the proverbial ton, and would gladly cruise there on the highway, I don't often maintain more than 90 for more than a few minuits.
So, given that the average 928 owner isn't going to strip his car, lowering the gears or increasing the HP is the ticket for the type of driving that some might prefer on the street. Swaping rear ends is a reversible simple procedure that keeps the car stock. I may strip out my 80 US for track use, but it is already a good bit lighter than my 89 and feels it. stripped out, I would bet it would have no trouble keeping up with its more powerful sibling, at least to 100.
I would be interested in seeing the comparison of ratios, gear for gear on the 80 box to the 2.2. It's a nice box, geared well for the street.
So, given that the average 928 owner isn't going to strip his car, lowering the gears or increasing the HP is the ticket for the type of driving that some might prefer on the street. Swaping rear ends is a reversible simple procedure that keeps the car stock. I may strip out my 80 US for track use, but it is already a good bit lighter than my 89 and feels it. stripped out, I would bet it would have no trouble keeping up with its more powerful sibling, at least to 100.
I would be interested in seeing the comparison of ratios, gear for gear on the 80 box to the 2.2. It's a nice box, geared well for the street.
#73
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Long gearing in intermediate years was just for fuel saving. It's all about how long 5th is. Because of the gearbox design ring & pinion is only thing that determines how long it is. All the other gears can be adjusted by changing gearbox gearsets but 5th is different in 928.
#74
Rennlist Member
Do you really want the answer?
If so, it sounds something like this.
any change of a gear box will change the sweet spot of where you get torque to the wheels at different speed ranges. Having owned a 2.75, and a 2.2 and a 2.226 ive had a chance to compare them . especially on a track, where there will be a target speed at every straight and you need to maximize HP to the wheels over a lap. That said, every track for a given set of ratios, will or can use a different rear end. as i have always said, the rear end choice will "Depend" on the application. one of the main reasons for the 2.2, as none of the transmission ratios changed in their spacing (key point) was that with a 2.2 rear end, they could achieve a lower level of fuel emmisions by reducing hyway cruise rpms, and just change the ratios of the 1-4 gears to achieve close to same gear ratios. (within 5-8% of previousl boxes)
If you know the ratios of the 79, 84 and 85 boxes, you can see that there are only an 5 to 15% difference all gears between gears. meaning, i more of a change going from a 84 to a 85 ( 8-10%) as someone with an 84 going to a 79 would see. (4-5%) One of the nice things about a 2.75 box set up, is that the gear spacing for all gears is close to the same, including 5th. with a 2.2, you have the big step down in rpms and torque going into what is commonly called "an overdrive" gear.
note: Ive also been able to simulate some of these gear box changes with just rear end tire changes. a 245x45x17 vs a 305x35x18 gives close to a 5% change in diameter!
one of the questions you should ask yourself on this topic, is why porsche didnt ALWAYS change the transmission ratio as well as the rear end ring and pinion! they always did, because they knew that some of these radical changes in rear end, would do nothing but remove a 5th gear and give a very low 1st gear that would not be of any use for 99% of most drivers, especially on how most folks dont spend much time in 1st gear anyway.
next time you are in your porsche 928, dump the clutch and punch it and think i you could really use 2x the torque during an out of the hole acceleration. and then after you get the tires to grip, think about what gear you would need next.
trust me. having a 1st geat that tops out at how fast i can RUN in my track shoes, is not going to be very useful, again, unless you are wearing mickey thompsons! (ie 25mph with a 3.09 box on an S4 trans)
MK
If so, it sounds something like this.
any change of a gear box will change the sweet spot of where you get torque to the wheels at different speed ranges. Having owned a 2.75, and a 2.2 and a 2.226 ive had a chance to compare them . especially on a track, where there will be a target speed at every straight and you need to maximize HP to the wheels over a lap. That said, every track for a given set of ratios, will or can use a different rear end. as i have always said, the rear end choice will "Depend" on the application. one of the main reasons for the 2.2, as none of the transmission ratios changed in their spacing (key point) was that with a 2.2 rear end, they could achieve a lower level of fuel emmisions by reducing hyway cruise rpms, and just change the ratios of the 1-4 gears to achieve close to same gear ratios. (within 5-8% of previousl boxes)
If you know the ratios of the 79, 84 and 85 boxes, you can see that there are only an 5 to 15% difference all gears between gears. meaning, i more of a change going from a 84 to a 85 ( 8-10%) as someone with an 84 going to a 79 would see. (4-5%) One of the nice things about a 2.75 box set up, is that the gear spacing for all gears is close to the same, including 5th. with a 2.2, you have the big step down in rpms and torque going into what is commonly called "an overdrive" gear.
note: Ive also been able to simulate some of these gear box changes with just rear end tire changes. a 245x45x17 vs a 305x35x18 gives close to a 5% change in diameter!
one of the questions you should ask yourself on this topic, is why porsche didnt ALWAYS change the transmission ratio as well as the rear end ring and pinion! they always did, because they knew that some of these radical changes in rear end, would do nothing but remove a 5th gear and give a very low 1st gear that would not be of any use for 99% of most drivers, especially on how most folks dont spend much time in 1st gear anyway.
next time you are in your porsche 928, dump the clutch and punch it and think i you could really use 2x the torque during an out of the hole acceleration. and then after you get the tires to grip, think about what gear you would need next.
trust me. having a 1st geat that tops out at how fast i can RUN in my track shoes, is not going to be very useful, again, unless you are wearing mickey thompsons! (ie 25mph with a 3.09 box on an S4 trans)
MK
Originally Posted by John Veninger
Why did Porsche choose a 2:75 on the first 928 and then used the 2:73 for the last 6 years of production on their "fastest" 928's (GT and GTS) vs. the 2:20 if it would produce the same result??
Last edited by mark kibort; 11-06-2005 at 02:13 PM.
#75
Rennlist Member
I think you first need to review the speeds in each gear at redline.
second, you are forgetting that the gear spacing doesnt change with a rear end change. AGAIN, all you change with a rear end change of a 3.09 from a 2.2 on an S4 box, is that you gain one gear below 1st (by the % of 2.2 to 3.09) and then, 2nd 3rd 4th and 5 all just get shifted down, with 5th being slightly taller than the previous 4th at 3.09 vs 3.2) AND you just lost your overdrive of the 2.2 to shift into to cruise at 70mph at 2000rpm or so on the hightway.
without going into the ratios of ALL the models, keep in mind, the differences of the boxes were not reflected to the same difference per gear as the 2.75 vs 2.2 would indicate.
in fact, as i said, there was a pretty equal difference stepping up from the 2.75 to the 2.226 to the 2.2. (ie GTS or 79-82 to the S4)
for example , lets compare all the 1st gears:
S4 8.9:1
GT/GTS/79-82 10.2:1
84 US 9.67:1
dont have the 2.64 box handy, but i bet its somewhere inbetween . all of these boxes are close to each other. the biggest differnce was in the S4 vs the GTS/GT/79-82 boxes with the 2.75 /2.72 rear end. However, if you change the rear end alone, by using the 3.09 , its a radical enough change to just do what we all are talking about, you gain a lower 1st gear and just loose a 5th, and get close to the same gears in the middle. SO, for your street use and speeds of 70mph or whatever, you would have no gains or real differences.
so, yes, getting more hp or loosing weight makes you faster. changing the ratios just changes the efficiency of which the hp is put to the wheels over the target operational range. for an infinite range of speeds, there will be no gains. (operative word "Infinite") for a target range, changes to the rear end will have small benefits, that are easy to calculate. if your goal is 0-60, getting a rear end that redlines at 60mph in whatever gear you have to use. for our gear boxes, a 2.75 seems to be the answer. change that speed target to 75, 80, 90, 100, 115 mph and your answer becomes one of the gear boxes we all have already. changing just the rear end from stock to a 3.09 doesnt do much but give a pretty useless 1st gear, and change nothing up to the speeds mentioned. (and you loose an economical 5th in the process)
MK
second, you are forgetting that the gear spacing doesnt change with a rear end change. AGAIN, all you change with a rear end change of a 3.09 from a 2.2 on an S4 box, is that you gain one gear below 1st (by the % of 2.2 to 3.09) and then, 2nd 3rd 4th and 5 all just get shifted down, with 5th being slightly taller than the previous 4th at 3.09 vs 3.2) AND you just lost your overdrive of the 2.2 to shift into to cruise at 70mph at 2000rpm or so on the hightway.
without going into the ratios of ALL the models, keep in mind, the differences of the boxes were not reflected to the same difference per gear as the 2.75 vs 2.2 would indicate.
in fact, as i said, there was a pretty equal difference stepping up from the 2.75 to the 2.226 to the 2.2. (ie GTS or 79-82 to the S4)
for example , lets compare all the 1st gears:
S4 8.9:1
GT/GTS/79-82 10.2:1
84 US 9.67:1
dont have the 2.64 box handy, but i bet its somewhere inbetween . all of these boxes are close to each other. the biggest differnce was in the S4 vs the GTS/GT/79-82 boxes with the 2.75 /2.72 rear end. However, if you change the rear end alone, by using the 3.09 , its a radical enough change to just do what we all are talking about, you gain a lower 1st gear and just loose a 5th, and get close to the same gears in the middle. SO, for your street use and speeds of 70mph or whatever, you would have no gains or real differences.
so, yes, getting more hp or loosing weight makes you faster. changing the ratios just changes the efficiency of which the hp is put to the wheels over the target operational range. for an infinite range of speeds, there will be no gains. (operative word "Infinite") for a target range, changes to the rear end will have small benefits, that are easy to calculate. if your goal is 0-60, getting a rear end that redlines at 60mph in whatever gear you have to use. for our gear boxes, a 2.75 seems to be the answer. change that speed target to 75, 80, 90, 100, 115 mph and your answer becomes one of the gear boxes we all have already. changing just the rear end from stock to a 3.09 doesnt do much but give a pretty useless 1st gear, and change nothing up to the speeds mentioned. (and you loose an economical 5th in the process)
MK
Originally Posted by Daniel Dudley
I get what you are saying Mark, but remember, some people live for that 0 - 60 because they can do that legally anywhere, anytime and it is fun. Also, what is the weight of your car compared to a standard S4 ? My car is a boat, and I think all the so called gearing issues could be solved with a six hundred pound diet, which is about what your car weighs, I'll bet. My S4 is an 89, and it has a useful lower overall gearing that is right between 2.2 and 3.06, and I still can see 70 + MPH in second. Close set ratios that top out at 30, 60, 90, 120 and 155 would be ideal for me on the street, and although I may top the proverbial ton, and would gladly cruise there on the highway, I don't often maintain more than 90 for more than a few minuits.
So, given that the average 928 owner isn't going to strip his car, lowering the gears or increasing the HP is the ticket for the type of driving that some might prefer on the street. Swaping rear ends is a reversible simple procedure that keeps the car stock. I may strip out my 80 US for track use, but it is already a good bit lighter than my 89 and feels it. stripped out, I would bet it would have no trouble keeping up with its more powerful sibling, at least to 100.
I would be interested in seeing the comparison of ratios, gear for gear on the 80 box to the 2.2. It's a nice box, geared well for the street.
So, given that the average 928 owner isn't going to strip his car, lowering the gears or increasing the HP is the ticket for the type of driving that some might prefer on the street. Swaping rear ends is a reversible simple procedure that keeps the car stock. I may strip out my 80 US for track use, but it is already a good bit lighter than my 89 and feels it. stripped out, I would bet it would have no trouble keeping up with its more powerful sibling, at least to 100.
I would be interested in seeing the comparison of ratios, gear for gear on the 80 box to the 2.2. It's a nice box, geared well for the street.