Would be grateful for your advise (on buying a '91 GT)
09-03-2005, 07:49 AM
#1
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Would be grateful for your advise (on buying a '91 GT)
Dear All
Have been shopping round for a 928 over the last 6 months or so, and have found a 928 GT that at first glance seems ideal. I went to have a look yesterday. Could I please ask for any advice, as there were points that I was unsure about:
The car is a 928 GT 1991 (manual). At face value, the car seems to be in perfect condition, paintwork is fine, engine runs well, service history and MOT’s check out (72,00 miles):
However, when I took it for a test drive I noticed the following:
- The current owner first admitted that the car won’t readily change into second gear until the gear box is warmed up, and therefore changed directly from first to third. When I took over and actually drove the car, I noticed a quiet tapping / clicking sound when in second gear, which sounded a little like the tappets. Could this be a problem with the synchro-mesh, and therefore requires a new gearbox? When I queried the seller about this he said that he was not aware of any tapping.
- Brakes are squeaking, and there seems to be a lot of movement required to get them to work. I’d imaging that the fluid needs changing with perhaps new pads, but could this indicate anything else?
- The steering was very heavy, even thought the owner said the car had electronic steering – is this usual or could it indicate a previous crash? However, this was the first GT I have driven, and I do not know for sure. In addition, the steering naturally veered very slightly to the left hand side, and the replacement momo steering wheel pointed slightly to the left as well. Am I just being paranoid, as this could be the camber of the road?
- The owner had not serviced the car since he bought it in Feb 2004 (admittedly it has only done 4000 miles since). He said he had it checked out by the local Porsche specialist before he bought it, but could not produce any documentation to prove it. The owner did not have any other paperwork / documentation relating to maintenance during his ownership, although his proof of ownership of the car seemed valid - the latest MOT and V5 both checked out ok. The car had been HPI checked in 2004, but I am going to get another done today.
- The owner also admitted that the radio did not work, and there was no manual for the stereo. However, on testing the stereo with a cd, and then taking the cd out again, it worked. This was not very confidence inspiring, as it seemed that the owner did not know how to operate it (he even had trouble knowing which button to switch the stereo on with).
- The owners reason for sale was due to the fact that he had hurt his back earlier on this year, and the GT was too uncomfortable for him. Understandable I suppose, since the GT has the stiffer suspension, but I am way that this may not be the true reason, as he was professing as to how comfortable that car was.
- The owner seemed loathed initially to provide any details over the phone (understandable I guess), so I was compelled to meet him in public, after which he took me back to his house. In addition, he would not give any vehicle details (VIN or plate) over the phone.
- We agreed on a provisional price, and provided that we had the car checked by a specialist, I would pay the price. However, he was loathed to travel to the nearest Porsche dealer (admittedly about 50 miles away), and suggested only the local specialist (I also suggested a mobile checking service such and he agreed).
All in all, this is my dream car. I am just a little concerned that the owner actually would prefer to keep the car, but there is significant work required, and therefore he is trying to offload it before the work becomes a necessity. I may jut be being paranoid though.
Please, please can you help me out with this one, as I am managing to loose sleep over it!
Many thanks in advance.
Kind Regards,
Jon
Have been shopping round for a 928 over the last 6 months or so, and have found a 928 GT that at first glance seems ideal. I went to have a look yesterday. Could I please ask for any advice, as there were points that I was unsure about:
The car is a 928 GT 1991 (manual). At face value, the car seems to be in perfect condition, paintwork is fine, engine runs well, service history and MOT’s check out (72,00 miles):
However, when I took it for a test drive I noticed the following:
- The current owner first admitted that the car won’t readily change into second gear until the gear box is warmed up, and therefore changed directly from first to third. When I took over and actually drove the car, I noticed a quiet tapping / clicking sound when in second gear, which sounded a little like the tappets. Could this be a problem with the synchro-mesh, and therefore requires a new gearbox? When I queried the seller about this he said that he was not aware of any tapping.
- Brakes are squeaking, and there seems to be a lot of movement required to get them to work. I’d imaging that the fluid needs changing with perhaps new pads, but could this indicate anything else?
- The steering was very heavy, even thought the owner said the car had electronic steering – is this usual or could it indicate a previous crash? However, this was the first GT I have driven, and I do not know for sure. In addition, the steering naturally veered very slightly to the left hand side, and the replacement momo steering wheel pointed slightly to the left as well. Am I just being paranoid, as this could be the camber of the road?
- The owner had not serviced the car since he bought it in Feb 2004 (admittedly it has only done 4000 miles since). He said he had it checked out by the local Porsche specialist before he bought it, but could not produce any documentation to prove it. The owner did not have any other paperwork / documentation relating to maintenance during his ownership, although his proof of ownership of the car seemed valid - the latest MOT and V5 both checked out ok. The car had been HPI checked in 2004, but I am going to get another done today.
- The owner also admitted that the radio did not work, and there was no manual for the stereo. However, on testing the stereo with a cd, and then taking the cd out again, it worked. This was not very confidence inspiring, as it seemed that the owner did not know how to operate it (he even had trouble knowing which button to switch the stereo on with).
- The owners reason for sale was due to the fact that he had hurt his back earlier on this year, and the GT was too uncomfortable for him. Understandable I suppose, since the GT has the stiffer suspension, but I am way that this may not be the true reason, as he was professing as to how comfortable that car was.
- The owner seemed loathed initially to provide any details over the phone (understandable I guess), so I was compelled to meet him in public, after which he took me back to his house. In addition, he would not give any vehicle details (VIN or plate) over the phone.
- We agreed on a provisional price, and provided that we had the car checked by a specialist, I would pay the price. However, he was loathed to travel to the nearest Porsche dealer (admittedly about 50 miles away), and suggested only the local specialist (I also suggested a mobile checking service such and he agreed).
All in all, this is my dream car. I am just a little concerned that the owner actually would prefer to keep the car, but there is significant work required, and therefore he is trying to offload it before the work becomes a necessity. I may jut be being paranoid though.
Please, please can you help me out with this one, as I am managing to loose sleep over it!
Many thanks in advance.
Kind Regards,
Jon
Last edited by Randy V; 09-03-2005 at 02:09 PM.
09-03-2005, 11:21 AM
#2
You should get a PPI done by a Porsche mechanic who is FAMILIAR with the 928. (PPI=Pre Purchase Inspection). A 91' with that mileage shouldn't have any tranny problems in my opinion...(Some here may disagree). You should also run the VIN into "Carfax.com" to she if it's been an any accidents.....it'll also tell you when maintenance was done and where the vehicle has been. Him saying that his back hurts and thats why he's selling is more than likely BS. I'm sure that whatever else he drives isn't as comfortable as the 928. My 83' 928S is more comfortable than a 2001 Honda Accord that I used to own. Then again, I don't have back problems and this is just my opinion......but I think he is full of it.
09-03-2005, 12:00 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Jon,
Certainly you describe some sketchy behavior, and yes that should give you extra caution. Some folks are just weird without being ill-intentioned, but given the other issues with the car, you need to take extra care with this one.
G--pimp's advice regarding getting a tech familiar with the car to look at it is very important... the most important point here, I think. Quite simply, if the seller won't work with you to get the car to a tech you can trust, walk away and find another car.
In my opinion, there are lots of well-cared for 928s out there, and it's not worth getting a problemed car just because it's a great color combo. You can sink a lot of dough, really quickly, into repairs.
Where are you located, Jon? Maybe a 'Lister in your area can provide some advice on shops and/or the car. I think it's better to put that money in up-front on a well-documented, confidence inspiring ride.
Stay cool, exercise care, and good luck! These are great cars.
Certainly you describe some sketchy behavior, and yes that should give you extra caution. Some folks are just weird without being ill-intentioned, but given the other issues with the car, you need to take extra care with this one.
G--pimp's advice regarding getting a tech familiar with the car to look at it is very important... the most important point here, I think. Quite simply, if the seller won't work with you to get the car to a tech you can trust, walk away and find another car.
In my opinion, there are lots of well-cared for 928s out there, and it's not worth getting a problemed car just because it's a great color combo. You can sink a lot of dough, really quickly, into repairs.
Where are you located, Jon? Maybe a 'Lister in your area can provide some advice on shops and/or the car. I think it's better to put that money in up-front on a well-documented, confidence inspiring ride.
Stay cool, exercise care, and good luck! These are great cars.
09-03-2005, 12:23 PM
#4
Brake squeaking is common on 928s. Nothing hard to fix there.
The 928s do have what many would consider 'heavy steering'.
The pedal height for the brakes is fully adjustable, so that should be no big deal.
What i'd worry about is the trans. Rebuilding a GTS box IS NOT cheap by any means of the word.
The 928s do have what many would consider 'heavy steering'.
The pedal height for the brakes is fully adjustable, so that should be no big deal.
What i'd worry about is the trans. Rebuilding a GTS box IS NOT cheap by any means of the word.
09-03-2005, 01:23 PM
#5
Rennlist Member
Most things you mentioned are readily fixable should they be not quite right - well, except that the trans could run more $$ if indeed something is wrong inside. Brakes, etc are readily rebuildable at home if you're so inclined - and are a wear item in any case. Steering is of hydraulic assist rack and pinion - not electronic ; not a big deal - but indicates that the current owner would appear to know little of this car, bought it for whatever reason, and now wants to move on. This could help make your opportunity.
Absolutely get a PPI by someone knowledgable of the 928 - or as Chaad suggests, post your area - and there is likely a knowledgable Rennlister in your proximity.
I would love to inspect for you - but suspect that it's a long drive from here
but there is bound to be someone closed and more experienced.
Absolutely get a PPI by someone knowledgable of the 928 - or as Chaad suggests, post your area - and there is likely a knowledgable Rennlister in your proximity.
I would love to inspect for you - but suspect that it's a long drive from here
but there is bound to be someone closed and more experienced.
09-03-2005, 01:56 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
Jon, Looking at all of the items you listed, both with the car and the current owner, my advise would be to run not walk away. As others have stated, there are a lot of well maintained, well documented cars out there. From everything you said this is not one of them! 
Again, where are you? This is a great list and I'm sure one of the list members will be happy to help you with a PPI on this car if your so inclined.
Jim Mayzurk
93 GTS 5-Spd
Again, where are you? This is a great list and I'm sure one of the list members will be happy to help you with a PPI on this car if your so inclined.
Jim Mayzurk
93 GTS 5-Spd
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09-04-2005, 10:26 AM
#8
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Jon,
You definitely need a PPI and an Porsche dealer is not the place to go - UK's best man is Paul Anderson at www.928spares.co.uk - give him a ring on his mobile (number on the website). He is in Stroud, Glos - where is the car? Avoid RAC type mobile check - not enough specialist 928 knowledge to pick up potential problems. If in doubt leave the car - simply not the worth the risk if you have doubts.
Better still why not ring Paul and ask him to find a car for you?
Good luck
Mark
You definitely need a PPI and an Porsche dealer is not the place to go - UK's best man is Paul Anderson at www.928spares.co.uk - give him a ring on his mobile (number on the website). He is in Stroud, Glos - where is the car? Avoid RAC type mobile check - not enough specialist 928 knowledge to pick up potential problems. If in doubt leave the car - simply not the worth the risk if you have doubts.
Better still why not ring Paul and ask him to find a car for you?
Good luck
Mark
09-04-2005, 11:04 AM
#9
2nd Gear
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Thank you to everyone for your replies. I was going to walk away, but I think I might try Paul Anderson, as he is pretty close to the car. The owner lives near Birmingham.
If it check's out ok, then I'll go for it. Otherwise I'll keep on looking.
Once, again my sincere thanks to all for your advice, Gueedo the killer pimp, Chaadster, M21 sniper, Garth, Jim, Chris and Dr Mark - it is much appreciated.
Hope you have a good rest of the weekend.
Jon W
If it check's out ok, then I'll go for it. Otherwise I'll keep on looking.
Once, again my sincere thanks to all for your advice, Gueedo the killer pimp, Chaadster, M21 sniper, Garth, Jim, Chris and Dr Mark - it is much appreciated.
Hope you have a good rest of the weekend.
Jon W
09-04-2005, 04:36 PM
#10
Jon
Very relevant advice as ever from the board, but as a last few thoughts.
A faulty manual transmission after only 72 000 miles is unlikely and the odometer is virtually un-fiddleable unless the instrument panel has been swapped. Minor transmission problems are frequently related to wrong oil. If it changes to 2nd easily enough when warmed up then a refill with Mobilube 1 synthetic may be all it needs. Brakes, steering and radio problems will cost perhaps
£ 1000 at worst.
If you're looking for "street cred" forget it. The 928 is one of the most under-acclaimed cars ever built but it is a true classic and any GT is a worthy rescue mission if the price is reasonable. Check Top Marques or Exchange and Mart for comparitive prices.
Luck
Colin. 89GT
Very relevant advice as ever from the board, but as a last few thoughts.
A faulty manual transmission after only 72 000 miles is unlikely and the odometer is virtually un-fiddleable unless the instrument panel has been swapped. Minor transmission problems are frequently related to wrong oil. If it changes to 2nd easily enough when warmed up then a refill with Mobilube 1 synthetic may be all it needs. Brakes, steering and radio problems will cost perhaps
£ 1000 at worst.
If you're looking for "street cred" forget it. The 928 is one of the most under-acclaimed cars ever built but it is a true classic and any GT is a worthy rescue mission if the price is reasonable. Check Top Marques or Exchange and Mart for comparitive prices.
Luck
Colin. 89GT
09-04-2005, 08:42 PM
#11
These cars are all too easy to buy, but not quick to sell. Get a 928 buddy. You need someone there when your heart starts racing and your palms start sweating. You can get a good one with all the latest services from a true enthusiast who wants to see his car go to a good home. PPI, PPI, PPI.
09-04-2005, 09:42 PM
#12
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Originally Posted by Jon W
Dear All
Have been shopping round for a 928 over the last 6 months or so, and have found a 928 GT that at first glance seems ideal. I went to have a look yesterday. Could I please ask for any advice, as there were points that I was unsure about:
The car is a 928 GT 1991 (manual). At face value, the car seems to be in perfect condition, paintwork is fine, engine runs well, service history and MOT’s check out (72,00 miles):
However, when I took it for a test drive I noticed the following:
- The current owner first admitted that the car won’t readily change into second gear until the gear box is warmed up, and therefore changed directly from first to third. When I took over and actually drove the car, I noticed a quiet tapping / clicking sound when in second gear, which sounded a little like the tappets. Could this be a problem with the synchro-mesh, and therefore requires a new gearbox? When I queried the seller about this he said that he was not aware of any tapping.
- Brakes are squeaking, and there seems to be a lot of movement required to get them to work. I’d imaging that the fluid needs changing with perhaps new pads, but could this indicate anything else?
- The steering was very heavy, even thought the owner said the car had electronic steering – is this usual or could it indicate a previous crash? However, this was the first GT I have driven, and I do not know for sure. In addition, the steering naturally veered very slightly to the left hand side, and the replacement momo steering wheel pointed slightly to the left as well. Am I just being paranoid, as this could be the camber of the road?
- The owner had not serviced the car since he bought it in Feb 2004 (admittedly it has only done 4000 miles since). He said he had it checked out by the local Porsche specialist before he bought it, but could not produce any documentation to prove it. The owner did not have any other paperwork / documentation relating to maintenance during his ownership, although his proof of ownership of the car seemed valid - the latest MOT and V5 both checked out ok. The car had been HPI checked in 2004, but I am going to get another done today.
- The owner also admitted that the radio did not work, and there was no manual for the stereo. However, on testing the stereo with a cd, and then taking the cd out again, it worked. This was not very confidence inspiring, as it seemed that the owner did not know how to operate it (he even had trouble knowing which button to switch the stereo on with).
- The owners reason for sale was due to the fact that he had hurt his back earlier on this year, and the GT was too uncomfortable for him. Understandable I suppose, since the GT has the stiffer suspension, but I am way that this may not be the true reason, as he was professing as to how comfortable that car was.
- The owner seemed loathed initially to provide any details over the phone (understandable I guess), so I was compelled to meet him in public, after which he took me back to his house. In addition, he would not give any vehicle details (VIN or plate) over the phone.
- We agreed on a provisional price, and provided that we had the car checked by a specialist, I would pay the price. However, he was loathed to travel to the nearest Porsche dealer (admittedly about 50 miles away), and suggested only the local specialist (I also suggested a mobile checking service such and he agreed).
All in all, this is my dream car. I am just a little concerned that the owner actually would prefer to keep the car, but there is significant work required, and therefore he is trying to offload it before the work becomes a necessity. I may jut be being paranoid though.
Please, please can you help me out with this one, as I am managing to loose sleep over it!
Many thanks in advance.
Kind Regards,
Jon
Have been shopping round for a 928 over the last 6 months or so, and have found a 928 GT that at first glance seems ideal. I went to have a look yesterday. Could I please ask for any advice, as there were points that I was unsure about:
The car is a 928 GT 1991 (manual). At face value, the car seems to be in perfect condition, paintwork is fine, engine runs well, service history and MOT’s check out (72,00 miles):
However, when I took it for a test drive I noticed the following:
- The current owner first admitted that the car won’t readily change into second gear until the gear box is warmed up, and therefore changed directly from first to third. When I took over and actually drove the car, I noticed a quiet tapping / clicking sound when in second gear, which sounded a little like the tappets. Could this be a problem with the synchro-mesh, and therefore requires a new gearbox? When I queried the seller about this he said that he was not aware of any tapping.
- Brakes are squeaking, and there seems to be a lot of movement required to get them to work. I’d imaging that the fluid needs changing with perhaps new pads, but could this indicate anything else?
- The steering was very heavy, even thought the owner said the car had electronic steering – is this usual or could it indicate a previous crash? However, this was the first GT I have driven, and I do not know for sure. In addition, the steering naturally veered very slightly to the left hand side, and the replacement momo steering wheel pointed slightly to the left as well. Am I just being paranoid, as this could be the camber of the road?
- The owner had not serviced the car since he bought it in Feb 2004 (admittedly it has only done 4000 miles since). He said he had it checked out by the local Porsche specialist before he bought it, but could not produce any documentation to prove it. The owner did not have any other paperwork / documentation relating to maintenance during his ownership, although his proof of ownership of the car seemed valid - the latest MOT and V5 both checked out ok. The car had been HPI checked in 2004, but I am going to get another done today.
- The owner also admitted that the radio did not work, and there was no manual for the stereo. However, on testing the stereo with a cd, and then taking the cd out again, it worked. This was not very confidence inspiring, as it seemed that the owner did not know how to operate it (he even had trouble knowing which button to switch the stereo on with).
- The owners reason for sale was due to the fact that he had hurt his back earlier on this year, and the GT was too uncomfortable for him. Understandable I suppose, since the GT has the stiffer suspension, but I am way that this may not be the true reason, as he was professing as to how comfortable that car was.
- The owner seemed loathed initially to provide any details over the phone (understandable I guess), so I was compelled to meet him in public, after which he took me back to his house. In addition, he would not give any vehicle details (VIN or plate) over the phone.
- We agreed on a provisional price, and provided that we had the car checked by a specialist, I would pay the price. However, he was loathed to travel to the nearest Porsche dealer (admittedly about 50 miles away), and suggested only the local specialist (I also suggested a mobile checking service such and he agreed).
All in all, this is my dream car. I am just a little concerned that the owner actually would prefer to keep the car, but there is significant work required, and therefore he is trying to offload it before the work becomes a necessity. I may jut be being paranoid though.
Please, please can you help me out with this one, as I am managing to loose sleep over it!
Many thanks in advance.
Kind Regards,
Jon
You can have the gearbox rebuilt. The last one I had done was about 2G with me doing the removal.
Brakes could be anything. Master going, air, bad booster, bad calipers. Squealing is probably just non oem pads or they were not installed right.
Steering is probably the rack or the PS pump, that is if the tires are inflated. Never heard of electronic steering. Thats a load of BS. That alone would have me ready to sprint.
I dont believe anything anybody says anymore when it comes to $.
Right another sob story. I got a cancer one a while back. 928's are one of the most comfortable riding cars around. Ask him for medical records. I would guess the real reason he is selling, is he does not want to shell out 8G getting everything fixed.
So, he has told you most of the things that are wrong with it, I wonder what else there is wrong he has not told you about or just does not know. As you know these cars are a serious cash drain.
Gees if you have to do the Transaxle, you might as well do the torque tube and clutch. While you have the entire rear end out, might as well do the brakes front to back. You can almost count on reworking the power steering. How about the AC and what shape is the engine in, radiator, etc. I would be very cautious unless its cheap.
What is he asking ??
09-06-2005, 08:09 PM
#13
Good luck, Jon and keep us posted!! I can't stress enough to get a Porsche mechanic to look at it. Find one who works on 928's. Make sure you have him put it up on the lift and drive it himself. He may charge you a few hundred dollars, especially if he does compression tests but it's worth it. I was lucky enough to buy my 928 from an enthusiast who calls me at least once a week to make sure that she's running right. This guy really sounds like he's trying to get away from a "shark attack" on his wallet and wants to dump it on you. If this isn't the one, don't worry bro......you'll find one thats right for you!! 