Aero mirror conversion to early model
07-01-2005, 07:07 PM
#17
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I got to say I don't know of anybody carrying them, but ready to stand corrected. The harness has some electronics in it. The reason it is required if I can repeat what the fellow said who made it, our old mirrors have one motor, the newer ones have two. The early ones have different switching.
This come from the electronic engineer that I contacted and had him make me these up. He said it is a very common problem and that he used to make heaps of these. There is no other easy way around the problem. DoubleNutz do your mirrors work in up down and sideways planes? My were only working in diagonals.
They cost me about $150 USD but they were made up locally.
This come from the electronic engineer that I contacted and had him make me these up. He said it is a very common problem and that he used to make heaps of these. There is no other easy way around the problem. DoubleNutz do your mirrors work in up down and sideways planes? My were only working in diagonals.
They cost me about $150 USD but they were made up locally.
07-01-2005, 09:54 PM
#18
Drifting
Once again.......
The earlier mirrors use one motor to move both directions (2 wires, reversing polarity to reverse direction). They use a solonoid to change the drive mechanism from horizontal to vertical (one wire to activate the solonoid and the same two wires reversing polarity to reverse direction). Old cars can be made to work with just newer style switchs (position and side) and a bit of rewiring. It's not necessary to over-engineer a unit to convert it. If you don't use or need the mirror heaters, you have an excess of wires to use for the conversion. I will do a wiring diagram to post as soon as I get a free moment or two. All you need is one additional wire (mirror heater?) to get the proper amount of wires necessary (1 pair of wires for each direction/motor, reversing polarity to reverse direction).
Or should I just make a magic black box to convert it and retire with my millions?
The earlier mirrors use one motor to move both directions (2 wires, reversing polarity to reverse direction). They use a solonoid to change the drive mechanism from horizontal to vertical (one wire to activate the solonoid and the same two wires reversing polarity to reverse direction). Old cars can be made to work with just newer style switchs (position and side) and a bit of rewiring. It's not necessary to over-engineer a unit to convert it. If you don't use or need the mirror heaters, you have an excess of wires to use for the conversion. I will do a wiring diagram to post as soon as I get a free moment or two. All you need is one additional wire (mirror heater?) to get the proper amount of wires necessary (1 pair of wires for each direction/motor, reversing polarity to reverse direction).
Or should I just make a magic black box to convert it and retire with my millions?
07-02-2005, 03:57 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by Ketchmi
Once again.......
It's not necessary to over-engineer a unit to convert it. If you don't use or need the mirror heaters, you have an excess of wires to use for the conversion. I will do a wiring diagram to post as soon as I get a free moment or two. All you need is one additional wire (mirror heater?) to get the proper amount of wires necessary (1 pair of wires for each direction/motor, reversing polarity to reverse direction).
Or should I just make a magic black box to convert it and retire with my millions?
It's not necessary to over-engineer a unit to convert it. If you don't use or need the mirror heaters, you have an excess of wires to use for the conversion. I will do a wiring diagram to post as soon as I get a free moment or two. All you need is one additional wire (mirror heater?) to get the proper amount of wires necessary (1 pair of wires for each direction/motor, reversing polarity to reverse direction).
Or should I just make a magic black box to convert it and retire with my millions?
Dave guess they don't want to hear it from a couple of old timers that have BTDT
. Like I said...no problems on my PRDATR and it was not even a really big issue to get the wiring harness to do the conversion.
10-29-2008, 04:53 PM
#22
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Resurecting this old gem of an issue because it came up again but is burried in a thread about something else - https://rennlist.com/forums/showthre...eferrerid=6055
The Aero mirror discussion starts around post 70.
It is interesting that there are diagrams out there on Al Gore's internet like these: http://www.928intl.com/repair.htm (under Mirror) that are of very variable quality.
The article "GTS Mirror Conversion" is very good at describing in detail the S4 flag to Aero conversion. It presumes memory mirrors/controls - but without is just a subset of the instructions - Good!
The following: "GTS Mirror Wiring '80-'84", "GTS Mirror Wiring '85-'86" and "GTS Mirror Wiring '86R"
Are not useful references at all...! I noted it in the other post - but here it is again - they don't work - or only work in one plane if you call that working.
Some more detailed reasons are in the other post - but mainly they try to use the solenoid connection to power one of the motors - it simply doesn't work that way - the solenoid is either on or off the motor needs to reverse polarities to change direction.
There are a few solutions - one (as noted earlier in this thread) is to swap both switches in the drivers door to the S4/GTS style (probably from a junkyard) and adapt the existing wiring.
Another is to add a relay to the existing switches - to do a similar function to the solenoid and reuse the existing wiring.
A third way is to use a wiring adapter with a small low power relay built in for each side and install it in the door between the stock harness & the mirror. usually these also do the wire color mapping to make life easiest - but for the <$20 of parts used they cost about $150 - if you can find them...
Both the relay solutions have the relay(s) doing the exact same thing and controlled in the same way - one just uses 2 of them for convenience of mounting/install location.
There are those who have said it worked easily for them with no adapter... I'll say thats amazing - they must just have very low expectations...
Its not really that hard to wire these up and the basic configuration is the same for any '77-'86 car with dual remote mirrors (only some single electric mirror 77-79 car may be excluded - and these can use this method for their one mirror - w/ manual passenger mirror).
Any S4 can adapt to Aero mirrors easily (AO this includes you!)
for those models it is just a wire mapping issue and Andy Evangelidis covered it fully in the link above!
The following diagrams show the wiring of the solenoid mirrors and what needs to be done to adapt them to Aero mirrors. I don't know the exact pin mapping to the aeros because the wiring diagrams don't identify which motor is for which mirror plane and which polarity is Up/Right. However there are only 4 possible configurations of these pins - whoever does this first or who has notes on it can fill in the blanks...
Alan
The Aero mirror discussion starts around post 70.
It is interesting that there are diagrams out there on Al Gore's internet like these: http://www.928intl.com/repair.htm (under Mirror) that are of very variable quality.
The article "GTS Mirror Conversion" is very good at describing in detail the S4 flag to Aero conversion. It presumes memory mirrors/controls - but without is just a subset of the instructions - Good!
The following: "GTS Mirror Wiring '80-'84", "GTS Mirror Wiring '85-'86" and "GTS Mirror Wiring '86R"
Are not useful references at all...! I noted it in the other post - but here it is again - they don't work - or only work in one plane if you call that working.
Some more detailed reasons are in the other post - but mainly they try to use the solenoid connection to power one of the motors - it simply doesn't work that way - the solenoid is either on or off the motor needs to reverse polarities to change direction.
There are a few solutions - one (as noted earlier in this thread) is to swap both switches in the drivers door to the S4/GTS style (probably from a junkyard) and adapt the existing wiring.
Another is to add a relay to the existing switches - to do a similar function to the solenoid and reuse the existing wiring.
A third way is to use a wiring adapter with a small low power relay built in for each side and install it in the door between the stock harness & the mirror. usually these also do the wire color mapping to make life easiest - but for the <$20 of parts used they cost about $150 - if you can find them...
Both the relay solutions have the relay(s) doing the exact same thing and controlled in the same way - one just uses 2 of them for convenience of mounting/install location.
There are those who have said it worked easily for them with no adapter... I'll say thats amazing - they must just have very low expectations...
Its not really that hard to wire these up and the basic configuration is the same for any '77-'86 car with dual remote mirrors (only some single electric mirror 77-79 car may be excluded - and these can use this method for their one mirror - w/ manual passenger mirror).
Any S4 can adapt to Aero mirrors easily (AO this includes you!)
for those models it is just a wire mapping issue and Andy Evangelidis covered it fully in the link above!
The following diagrams show the wiring of the solenoid mirrors and what needs to be done to adapt them to Aero mirrors. I don't know the exact pin mapping to the aeros because the wiring diagrams don't identify which motor is for which mirror plane and which polarity is Up/Right. However there are only 4 possible configurations of these pins - whoever does this first or who has notes on it can fill in the blanks...
Alan
Last edited by Alan; 10-30-2008 at 12:11 AM. Reason: Updated Diagrams (slightly)
10-29-2008, 10:50 PM
#23
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Alan,
Awesome my friend and thank you.
Into the file marked aero mirrors.
Roger
Awesome my friend and thank you.
Into the file marked aero mirrors.
Roger
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Does it have the "Do It Yourself" manual transmission, or the superior "Fully Equipped by Porsche" Automatic Transmission?
George Layton March 2014928 Owners are ".....a secret sect of quietly assured Porsche pragmatists who in near anonymity appreciate the prodigious, easy going prowess of the 928."
10-31-2008, 01:33 AM
#24
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Roger - in case you saved a hard copy - just a note - I updated the diagrams a little for clarity...
Whoever does this first - tell me what the connection wire colors/numbers are on the Aero mirrors in these diagrams - only one configuration of the 4 possible will work correctly. Than I'll update the diagrams for everyone else.
Alan
Whoever does this first - tell me what the connection wire colors/numbers are on the Aero mirrors in these diagrams - only one configuration of the 4 possible will work correctly. Than I'll update the diagrams for everyone else.
Alan
10-31-2008, 11:00 AM
#26
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So Just to clarify the differences between the first 2 pictures here and what needs to change.
The wires to the door mirrors stay the same - at the mirrors you just connect the appropriate wires.
The selector switch is unchanged. At the direction switch you add in the single relay.
The switch has 2 white wires to terminal 6 and 2 black wires to terminal 5 - these change. Get an SPDT reay with a socket & pigtail - (a micro - ford type - relay may fit easier) cut both white wires & both black wires at least 2" from the switch. At the switch terminal snip off one wire of each color. Connect the white wire from the switch to the relay 86 wire (solder & heatshrink wrap). Connect the relay 85 wire to the switch pin 2/4 ground connection (splice). Then connect both black door wires to the relay 87a terminal and both white door wires to the relay 87 terminal. Done!
Its really not that complicated.
Alan
The wires to the door mirrors stay the same - at the mirrors you just connect the appropriate wires.
The selector switch is unchanged. At the direction switch you add in the single relay.
The switch has 2 white wires to terminal 6 and 2 black wires to terminal 5 - these change. Get an SPDT reay with a socket & pigtail - (a micro - ford type - relay may fit easier) cut both white wires & both black wires at least 2" from the switch. At the switch terminal snip off one wire of each color. Connect the white wire from the switch to the relay 86 wire (solder & heatshrink wrap). Connect the relay 85 wire to the switch pin 2/4 ground connection (splice). Then connect both black door wires to the relay 87a terminal and both white door wires to the relay 87 terminal. Done!
Its really not that complicated.
Alan
10-31-2008, 12:06 PM
#27
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If someone could enlighten me. I have a '91GT with Aero mirrors. The PO told me he had done the upgrade so I am under the impression that my car came with the earlier mirror design. Is that correct? In any case, my mirror controls move the mirrors sideways but not up and down. My question is: is this going to be a simple problem of pulling the mirrors off and finding out what was wired incorrectly or am I going to have to actually modify the wiring (as in the bottom of the three diagrams Alan posted above).
Thanks, Dan.
P.S. as far as I know my mirrors are not heated and if they do have that option it is not important to me.
Thanks, Dan.
P.S. as far as I know my mirrors are not heated and if they do have that option it is not important to me.
10-31-2008, 12:20 PM
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On an S4 Aero mirrors are just a wire mapping issue - the switchgear is the same.
See: http://www.928intl.com/repair/gtsmir...eromirrors.pdf
You should have heaters old/new & temp sensor old/new (for the digi dash) and if you have a memory mirror controller - Aero's work the same exact way with the right connections.
Alan
See: http://www.928intl.com/repair/gtsmir...eromirrors.pdf
You should have heaters old/new & temp sensor old/new (for the digi dash) and if you have a memory mirror controller - Aero's work the same exact way with the right connections.
Alan
10-31-2008, 12:23 PM
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Great, thanks Alan. It's just one of the many things on my car that I need to get to--just a little lower on the list--thought I'd make a post since the topic came up. Maybe this will bump it up on the list now that I know it should be a simple fix (famous last words).
10-31-2008, 12:54 PM
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