worf928

It is really easy to do if you have the fixed Brembo/S4 calipers. One thing that can make it even easier is to bypass the pad wear sensors so that you don't have to futz with them. At that point the procedure is:

1) Jack one corner.
2) Remove wheel.
3) Disengage the retaining clip.
4) Pull the old pads out.
5) Slide new pads in.
6) Engage the clip.
7) Mount and torque wheel.
8) Lower corner.
9) Lather rinse repeat.

It should take less than 30 minutes. The only 'special' tools you need are a set of channel locks for the clip and something to help grip the pad.

cobalt

I agree with what all you guys are saying if you plan on becoming repeat DE attendee. However for the first time out I would recommend just teching your car and making sure everything is in running order. It is always best to learn your car in street form and then work your way into all the extras. If you don't learn your cars limits in street form you loose out in the long run. Besides if you don't like it (which I highly doubt) you will have spent all this money on stuff you may never use again.

Go enjoy yourself and then figure out what is most important to you. Talk to the more experianced drivers and listen carefully to what their experiances have tought them. You will most likely be instructed by them more than once and they will give you a great deal of input. The cost of the basics like a FE, helmet and whatever else may be needed is enough to begin with.

Besides anyone can do great with all the extras. Learning how to control the car with limitations will make you learn much faster and become a better driver in the long run.

Just my .02 worth

John Veninger

Here is a nice overview from NNJR's site.

http://www.nnjr-pca.com/site/index.p...isplay&ceid=16

James-man

I can't imagine that many wouldn't want to be repeat attendees.

But your point is correct, Anthony. For first timers, you really only need to show up with an appropriate helmet, appropriate clothing (nothing new to buy unless your wardrobe only consists of khaki shorts and flip-flops), and, of course, your car.

Any PCA event will provide checklists and tech sheets etc in advance, so there are no surprises about preparedness.

James-man

BTW, I am attending a PCA DE this weekend.

James-man

Now that I am thinking about it....

Another question about brake pad swapping. Maybe laziness is the core issue, but would it be unwise to only swap out the fronts and leave the street pads in the rears? Any 2 cents lying around out there?

Thanks,

IcemanG17

Everyone
Great responses!!! I will have to talk to some experienced DE drivers this Sat at Sharks in the Park!! I've been wanting to flush my brakes anyway, now I have a reason (plus buy a helmet)! I'm sure its one of those things that once you try it your hooked (like ORR)...
Brian

cobalt

I won't argue with you there. After you get over the initial intimidation and the adrenaline starts flowing it is an awesome experience.

It took me 13 years to convince my wife to try AutoX, and she was always very nervous. After one autoX and the Car Control Clinic she is hooked. Next we have to find the time to try her out on DE events.

Enjoy yourself. The only down side is you will be so hooked that you may need to take out a second mortgage on your house to pay for all the goodies.

BTW the experience itself is only made that much better by all the wonderful knowledgable and helpful people that attend these events.

Lagavulin

I strongly disagree.

Fresh brake-fluid and track-pads are the bare minimum for a track outing, therefore, I would not consider their inclusion an 'extra'. Boil the fluid just once, or brake-fade, and all bets are off depending upon the circumstances. Suffering the potential consequences would not be considered 'fun'.

Comparitively, the rears do hardly any work; the fronts do all the heavy lifting. It's certainly doable as long as you have the appropriate pads up front, although not a best-case scenario.

cobalt

[QUOTE=Lagavulin]I strongly disagree.

Fresh brake-fluid and track-pads are the bare minimum for a track outing, therefore, I would not consider their inclusion an 'extra'. Boil the fluid just once, or brake-fade, and all bets are off depending upon the circumstances. Suffering the potential consequences would not be considered 'fun'.QUOTE]


I thoroughly agree with the fresh brake fluid. I would only switch to ATE blue if you plan on doing a lot of events. It will absorb more moisture by just sitting than the stock fluid.

Regarding better pads. They will help you stop quicker but the pad itself will not necessarily prevent your fluid from boiling. In many cases people push their cars harder because of the race pads and end up boiling their fluid that much faster. Heat dissipation is based more on the size of the rotor and pad and the fluid used to withstand higher temps. At $200 bucks or so for pads its your call. I just did a day of intensive threshold braking exercises with 2 drivers in the GTS. It is not as intensive as track driving but it had no ill effect on the stock pads and fluid in the GTS.

When I started doing DE events 20 years ago. Everyone boiled their brakes because bigger brakes were not available. You learned to drive the car with the limitation and deal. Most first timers are not going to be carrying speeds fast enough to worry about boiling brake fluid. If you have clean fluid you should be fine.

As you can see you you can talk to 100 people and you will get 100 different approaches.

Best is to just go and enjoy yourself, drive at the speed you feel comfortable and learn. Remember it is not a race but a Driver education event.

worf928

I agree with Lagavulin 100%. For a 928 you need high-temp brake fluid and a set of mixed-use pads. The 928 is a heavy car that generates a lot of heat under braking.

And, many novices over-use or mis-use brakes.

For a short-track like LRP with (effectively, for a novice) barely one heavy braking zone you might be able to get away with stock pads and fluid. But, for a track with one or more high-speed heavy braking zones (e.g. Watkins Glen, Mosport, etc.) good fluid and good pads are a must.

John Veninger

I never read that ATE had a higher moisture absorbtion rate than other Dot 3-4 fluids. Can you direct me to that info?
The only street Dot 3/4 fluid that I know of that has low moisture absorbtion is Castrol LMA.

The brake pad issues is very dependent on the driver and track. I've seen new students do just fine on their street pads at Lime Rock. I've also seen a student wear down a set of new street pads after one day a Pocono.

worf928

The pad compound and pad thickness also matter.

The GTS has one-inch larger rotors and a wAy bigger caliper than the S4 with the corresponding ability to sink and dissipate heat faster. And yes, the GTS is a teeny bit heavier than an S4 but proportionally the GTS has more brake effectiveness per pound of mass.

Agreed. I would suggest though, that those 100 approaches be further categorized by car type.

cobalt

Fair enough,

I myself plan on taking my wife to Pocono for a DE event and I will be useing up the remaining street pads left on the car. For first time out I have found that the average driver takes half a day or more to feel comfortable with hard brakeing or speed for that fact. Even in a heavy car like the 928 I don't see the need personally. Once you've done it once or twice and start carrying more speed brakeing harder and later it is worth changing compounds and playing around a bit more. Just my opinion.

Although it has been a few years since I tracked any of my cars, I always found that the first day a person takes their car on a track is intimidating enough. Getting involved with pad changes and things may be easy for many but with all else that needs to be learned there is little or no time to get involved. If you feel you are pushing your brakes too hard, just slow down, learn your line and all will be fine.

Play it the way you see it.

IcemanG17

So what is an AutoX event...sounds like an autocross style TT in a large parking lot with lots of cones?