jserio

BC's car is sweet. I saw it no long ago when we met up. Interior issues are nil compared to all he had done. Brian good luck in your venture.

bcdavis

Just trying to be honest...

I don't want them seeing some drops of oil, and freaking out later...

And yes, I think I will be more likely to find someone who falls in love with the car, outside of the 928 world.
Most of you guys either already have a 928...

I have to find someone who saw Risky Business a long time ago, and has always wanted one...

sharkmeister85

The "value" of a 928 (or anything else for that matter), is only what one individual is willing to pay at any particular moment in time. That is why so many sellers are disappointed. Their perception of "value" is way out of sync with that of the pool of possible buyers (for many possible reasons,some right, others wrong). They also may not take into account that there are other sellers of same/similar products (eg. other 928 sellers) who also want to sell and will compete harder (eg. lower price) to sell their product. So how desperate are you to sell? The longer you can wait, the greater the odds are you will find someone who will pay the price you want.
The "savvy" people H refers to are actually the people who know the product and the current bid/ask price. They won't pay much outside of that spread.They are the "real market". The other people that H refers to "who don't know the cars at all", that may be willing to pay the sellers perceived value because they don't know the "real market", are called "suckers". Harsh reality.
Glenn

bcdavis

Bring on the suckers!

heinrich

Glenn agreed to an extent but IMHO there is a MAJOR problem with the 928 market. Take a look at this:

'95 5spd ... people happily pay $50,000
'89 GT .... people happily pay $25,000
'91 S4 ... people happily pay $21,000
'88 S4 ... people happily pay $5,000

That ... is .... a .... problem.

heinrich

Glenn question: How much would you say people would happily pay for that '85 of mine you saw? I bet you it's $5k too.

bcdavis

Probably true for mine as well...

You really need to find a fan of the OB, that wants a euro...

Another reason to sell it, is because I would not really want to mutilate my euro, into a supercharged, wide-bodied monster.
I'm sure there is someone who actually just wants a nice clean Euro.
There are plenty of S4's, etc, that I can chop up into a wild car.
It would seem kind of sad to mangle this one...

I'd need to swap the engine, redo the interior, chop up the body, etc...
It would be sad to do that to a nice clean euro...

checkmate1996

Most 928s are going to need atleast $2-3K in repairs/upgrades when you buy it anyway. Then you have the labor...so you can save yourself all the hassle when you find one that's done right for just ittle more change...my .02

sharkmeister85

I don't know that I would describe this as a "problem", unless you are the seller of an S4 and think you should be able to sell it for the price of a GT or GTS. I'm not sure the prices you have are totally correct, but probably close enough for the sake of argument. I agree that markets are not 100% efficient in all cases, at all times, especially for a specialty car like the 928. I think this may be due largely to their relatively few numbers and the resulting lack of awareness by buyers. I think the prices you describe reflect more on the "supply" of cars available. How many '95 GTS 5 spd's are in NA, let alone for sale at any given time? I'll guess one or two a day on average,maybe less. But I'll bet you could find at least 100 S4's available. There are 5 or 6 advertised here in the Vancouver area right now alone.
As for your '85, if you find someone who will pay $5K and no one who will pay more, that IS what the car is worth in the market, at that moment in time. You can wait and see if someone is willing to pay more in a week, month, or year, though the risk is at that time it could be worth less. I paid about $21K for my '85. The supply of cars was very small and S4's were going for $30k plus. The car was in good shape so it was worth it to me. That was about 9 years ago. Obviously, a bad financial investment, but that's not what I was buying. I have no regrets whatsoever, it was the best "investment" in fun, pleasure and general mental health I ever made! Would I sell it for$5k if that's what the market is? Not a chance! The $5k it might fetch cannot buy me the same enjoyment anywhere else. I have no problem with the prices, other than I can't afford $50k for a GTS
Glenn

heinrich

Here's the problem.
To get out there and buy a 1988 Honda Civic with 80,000 miles, you will pay $3500. That is Kelly's price and I know from experience, a good example will cost you that or more. Contrast, at 1500 dollars more, a Porsche 928.

So the only problem is that Porsche 928's (how many were manufactured is completely irrelevant, it's still hundreds of thousands fewer than Civics) are undervalued. They are undervalued because people expect to pay $1500 more for one than a Civic. Why is that? I don't really care why. The point is, it isn't what the car is worth. Just because a seller walks up and is willing to bless me with his glorious 5,000 US dollars, doesn't mean I am going to kiss his ring and thank him, take the money and give him my car. And then take that 5k and put it down as a deposit on a 1990 Civic.

heinrich

Anyway to answer a bit more succinctly Glenn ... the discrepancy between a 1988 and a 1990 is too big.

chaadster

I dunno...$5k for an '88 is gonna bag you one ratty-*** S4. Seems like the going rate for an actually desireable one (i.e. good cond., low mileage) is more like $12k-$17.

sharkmeister85

Just so this doesn't become a total hijacking of bcdavis's thread, I'll wish him luck in selling his car for a price he is happy with. I think his car being a Euro and with the ton of stuff he has done to it, should differentiate his car enough from the other OB's out there that it should fetch a much better price. If it doesn't today or tomorrow, it might be worthwhile to hold on for a bit if he can afford to do that.
I agree Heinrich with your Civic analogy, and I agree with you on not selling for a mere $1500 more. You asked why the 928 is only $1500 more, so I'll give you my best guess. You and me (and alot of others on this list) are considered oddballs, freaks, nut jobs, you name it, by the motoring public at large. We value, dare I say love, our 928's with a passion way beyond what the "normal" motoring public feels for their car of choice. For them, a vehicle is a way to get work, take the kids to soccer, pick up 2x4's at Home Depot, etc. It is simply a tool to complete the tasks that are important in their lives. And it can be an annoying one at that. It loses value, costs money to operate and repair, and absorbs time and causes disruption to the daily routine when it breaks down. For their lives, a Honda Civic minimizes all those negatives and is therefore a pretty good choice for them.( I had one before my 928). For me (and I dare say you), what we "get" from our 928's far outweighs what they perceive as "negatives" ( not great gas mileage, high maintenance costs, limited capacity for cargo). We are very much a minority in the motoring world. The demand for Civics by "them" is enough to keep the prices at $3500, whereas the demand for 928's by "us" is only enough to keep the price at $5000.
Glenn

sharkmeister85

All the prices used are only examples that may or may not be a reflection of selling prices at any given time for any given car, so I don't see any point arguing about them specifically. I think what matters is that they are somewhat reflective of the market in "relative" terms and therefore useful to use as benchmarks in the discourse.
Glenn

nee.dragger

Now is the best time to sell, of course. Asking prices in the spring are high and are usually obtained because of buyer fever. Attempting to sell in the fall and winter, nets a loss because no one is looking to buy.


Very well said, I agree.


There needs to be more buyers to outweigh the number of cars available for sale. Then the prices commanded would be higher.