JPTL

Nailed yesterday by a VA State Trooper southbound on 522 in Orange County !!!
It had just rained big-time, and the roads were wet.
He passed me going the opposite direction (northbound). When I saw him, I looked at my speedo, and it showed just under 65. I slowed a bit to 60, and saw him turn around in my rear view mirror. By the time he caught up to me, I was doing about 57, but he pulled me over anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I have no problem with cops, but this guy was a narrow-eyed, red-faced *****, lacking any hair on his head or face....including eyebrows. Regardless, I was a courteous as I could be. However, I could immediately tell that he wasn't going to give me a warning.
The ticket says "Speeding 70/55 MPH Zone, M-Radar".
I seriously doubt that I was doing all of 70, and I don't know how he got a good fix on me, since that stretch of rural route is like a roller coaster..... but maybe this moving method of radar is incredibly accurate.
I'm going to haul my *** down to Orange County for a court date, but I want to handle this as best as possible.
My questions are this:

• How accurate is this type of measurement (two vehicles moving in the opposite direction) as opposed to stationary? Are there any tests that show this as being inaccurate? Any states that don't use it for this reason?
• What is M-radar? Does that describe the radar itself, or is the method of which it's used?
• Are there ways to challenge the ticket, i.e. accuracy of the method of measurement; technicalities of the ticket itself; questioning the radar operating restrictions placed on the officer in Orange County, or is that best left up to the local Orange County lawyer, and not a Speeding Yuppie Foreign-car-driving Yankee?
• Are there tricks to increasing the liklihood of the cop not showing up (reschedule my court date, etc.)?
• Should I not waste my time trying to challenge the officers claim of my doing 70 in a 55, and ask for leniency (pay the fine, but ask that the points be dropped)?

I used to be a leadfoot, but I've mellowed - and since I drive over 15k miles/yr. I've really toned it down over the last 15 yrs. I haven't gotten a speeding ticket...or even a moving violation in over 6 years. That's about 100k miles of ticket free travel. I can deal with the $175 +/-fine, but the points are going to kill me insurance-wise..... especially with me having access to 4 family vehicles - one being the 928.
I travel considerably for my job, and points on my license are really going to hurt.
Experiences, warnings, suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

rixter

DUDE!!! I had a similar thing happen to me in OC a few years ago... and I think I know who that cop is..
I went to court, told the judge I was going over the limit but NO WAY was I doing 70+.. he said ok. busted it down to 63 in a 55
the main traffic judge there is pretty laid back, told me to come right up to the bench to tell my side.. of the 4 cases I heard (including mine) he busted all of them down minimum of 5mph.. and one guy he flat out dismissed it cause the guy went to a local mech who wrote a letter saying the speedo was off by almost 5mph...

Fishy928S4

I would just be happy it was not in Fairfax County where you would have about ZERO chance to get out of ANYTHING.

Kevin in Atlanta

Fighting it is one thing. Getting it reduced is another. Not sure you can fight radar with any success.

I have had two ocasions to meet the Va State troopers. The second time I had a lawyer do my bidding. Be glad you were not 19 over the posted speed limit. That's reckless driving. Ask how I know that (twice). Va is just happy to get your money. A good lawyer can get the charge knocked down to failure to obey posted speed limit.

Call the courthouse and ask for a couple of lawyers names. See if either one of them has dealt with this state trooper.

Good luck.

Greggles

Here is a link that may give you some info.
http://www.jesbeard.com/29a.htm

Since Va tix appear on Md driving records you'll want to fight this one with a lawyer.

JPTL

I guess that I have to decide what I think a good 'ol local lawyer who knows the cop and/or the judge (maybe related to one of them?) can do for me - & the cost of doing so, compared to showing up solo.
I wonder how much a good 'ol Orange County lawyer would charge to handle this?

Greg,
Based on the info. contained in your link, I think I'll have a tough time effectively challenging the radar reading on my own. Since I was traveling on a two lane rural road, I'd say it was very unlikely that there was interference from other cars, electronics, etc. My guess is a lawyer who's seen & heard what works & what doesn't would be the only one who could effectively handle this type of challenge.

Scott M.

JPTL;

Contact Jay Kempf, he has some up close and personel experience with beating VA tickets, so I hear.

We were bangin' up I-81 in southern Va Tuesady around 85 mph. Got painted with K-band. Had to do a juke-jive and roll to avoid discussing it with the nice officer. Gawd I hate that state!!

Scott

Greggles

I do remember reading that radar can deliver inaccurate readings in the rain, around tunnels or overpasses. Was it still raining???

If I can throw something out, you might want to have your speedo recalibrated (it's 14 yr old). This has worked in the past in getting a moving violation plea bargined down to a non- moving equipment violation.

TAREK

show-up to court solo...and pay a reduced fine. Probably the most economical thing to do, unless the cost of going to court and a day off from work outweigh the savings...in which case just pay and be done with it

Donald

...and mention that the pig-eyed ossifer could not have hit you with radar as your top of the line detector did not give a warning...

All in the name of safety- right.

algie928s4

The past advice on the Rennlist regarding speeding tickets is fight one and all, this one if you allow it on your licence will show as previouse, so in the unfortunate event you get caught again you will find it even harder to claim innocence/leniency.
Go for a bigger fine-no points at the very least, 4 cars insurance rise is gonna hurt for a few years!

heinrich

Lawyer's the only way.

SharkSkin

JP, generally radar is only to be used on clear, straight stretches of road. The fact that he was moving introduces uncertainty into the scenario, as does the rain. In California at least, they are supposed to estimate your speed by eye and are only trained to do so when you are approaching on a straight level road. Under any other circumstances, rolling hills & curves for example, they may be considered "unqualified" to accurately judge your speed.

What you need is someone who knows how to fight tickets and knows all of the little peculiarities about their training, qualifications, and required procedures in that particular jurisdiction. Look for any mistakes on the ticket as well -- plate number, etc. because if you can prove one wrong observation you can call others into question.

HTH, and good luck.

Greggles

One of Atlanta's finest made a similar mistake with my drivers license number and license class. I pointed that out to the judge who proceeded to give me a lecture that this mistake was incidental & has nothing to do with me speeding. He used a lot of legal terms. If he transposed these numbers maybe I was only doing 57 mph. My point was the same as your, except he didn't laugh, instead he pointed me to the cashier.

Lesson learned....if you are in court you need a lawyer!

JPTL

Thanks for the posts/feedback. This all helps.
First thing that I did was to review the ticket carefully. The cop got everything right, so a toss-out on a technicality is likely not an option.
Earlier today, I talked to a good, local lawyer who specializes in traffic violations, reckless driving, DWI, etc, who was nice enough to take my call, and talk to me for about 15 minutes without a consultation fee. Gotta like that. He said that challenging VA State Troopers radar readings, procedures/calibration tests, etc. is very difficult for the inexperienced defendant to do.
He knows the judge (small town) and has been in his court enough to know what the judge will do. He's very confident that he can get my violation either reduced significantly, or excused completely, depending on various factors - many of which have been posted in this thread.
Thing is, he's $500 to show up in court. It's a bargain for reckless driving or DWI, but I'm not sure it'll be cost effective in this case.
Since Maryland is a 'compact licensure' state, I'm looking at 2 points if I simply pay it without challenging it. That being the worst case scenario, I have to consider the increase to my insurance, plus the fine cost & weigh that against the lawyer's fee.
The lawyer said that in cases of reckless, or DWI, this judge likes people who are willing to do traffic school, and usually reduces the penalty for first offenses if that's offered up in a plea.
In the case of a lesser violation (speeding - first moving violation in over 5 yrs.) he's likely to give some leniency if I just show up and ask for a break. Maybe if I grovel (with all due respect), point out my perfect record and the repercussions that points on my record will place on me & my family, and maybe even offer that I do traffic school, then I might be able to get both points knocked off.
I plan to get to court early to see what kind of mood the judge is in, and what he likes & doesn't like.