Recommendations needed – amplifier, head unit and sub (LONG)
03-27-2005, 09:39 PM
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Recommendations needed – amplifier, head unit and sub (LONG)
In my effort to put the black GTS back to stock, I have come to the realization that the after market stereo system installed is a very good foundation and that it just doesn’t make sense to remove it and put it all back to stock. The original owner told me he spent $40,000 on a Lo Jack, UNGO alarm, Motorola cell phone and stereo when the car was new. Judging by the quality of the work, I believe him – it is first class!
I started this past weekend with the goal of removing all the aftermarket alarm, stereo and cell phone unnecessary equipment. I removed the custom built piece that at one time held the amps and sub woofer. If you’ve looked at the pictures of the car you’ve noticed the McIntosh amps and the big sub, well, they were pillaged from the car prior to us buying it. There was no sub and some no name cheap *** amp that sounded worse than the factory unit.
This morning, I decided its best to scrap the idea of putting everything back to stock in spite of finding ALL the factory wiring/connections still in tact. I have even gone so far as to buy a factory new in the box Porsche CR-1 radio and a used Porsche 6 disc CD changer on eBay. I still need a factory amp and all the brackets to mount everything. What finally pushed me over the top was when I took the right side door panel off and saw that all the stock speakers have been replaced with MB Quart speakers. Not to mention the extra MB Quart speaker install in the door and the crossover in the door panel to split the signal for all three speakers. I had already removed two MB Quart crossovers in the back hatch area and yards of heavy duty wiring. It was becoming more and more apparent, this was obviously a high dollar installation installed to the highest standards. In the end, I removed all the paraphernalia from the phone and with the exception of one cut speaker wire that will need to be replaced I left everything else in tact. There was even a speaker for the phone stuffed up under the console for a hands free set up. I almost couldn’t believe there was so much stuff jammed up under the console! It’s much cleaner now.
To the point of this post:
I would like to buy a new amplifier, head unit (unless the Eclipse head unit is a good one???) and a sub woofer. It has been MANY MANY years since I even considered buying car stereo equipment so I have no clue about who’s who or who makes good equipment. I would like your recommendations give the following criteria:
1. I would like to be able to mount the amp and sub in the spare tire well so the equipment would have to be fairly small. Will I be able to find good quality, good sounding equipment that will be a good mate with the MB Quart speakers and be small enough to fit in the spare tire well?
2. Any head units that will hold multiple CDs and fit in the stock opening or will I have to buy a CD changer too?
3. Will I need to consider any other pieces of equipment besides amp, head unit and sub?
4. What is a reasonable amount of money I should expect to spend for decent equipment?
As you probably guessed, I do have LOTS of pictures or everything that will at some point will show up here when time permits.
Your thoughts?
I started this past weekend with the goal of removing all the aftermarket alarm, stereo and cell phone unnecessary equipment. I removed the custom built piece that at one time held the amps and sub woofer. If you’ve looked at the pictures of the car you’ve noticed the McIntosh amps and the big sub, well, they were pillaged from the car prior to us buying it. There was no sub and some no name cheap *** amp that sounded worse than the factory unit.
This morning, I decided its best to scrap the idea of putting everything back to stock in spite of finding ALL the factory wiring/connections still in tact. I have even gone so far as to buy a factory new in the box Porsche CR-1 radio and a used Porsche 6 disc CD changer on eBay. I still need a factory amp and all the brackets to mount everything. What finally pushed me over the top was when I took the right side door panel off and saw that all the stock speakers have been replaced with MB Quart speakers. Not to mention the extra MB Quart speaker install in the door and the crossover in the door panel to split the signal for all three speakers. I had already removed two MB Quart crossovers in the back hatch area and yards of heavy duty wiring. It was becoming more and more apparent, this was obviously a high dollar installation installed to the highest standards. In the end, I removed all the paraphernalia from the phone and with the exception of one cut speaker wire that will need to be replaced I left everything else in tact. There was even a speaker for the phone stuffed up under the console for a hands free set up. I almost couldn’t believe there was so much stuff jammed up under the console! It’s much cleaner now.
To the point of this post:
I would like to buy a new amplifier, head unit (unless the Eclipse head unit is a good one???) and a sub woofer. It has been MANY MANY years since I even considered buying car stereo equipment so I have no clue about who’s who or who makes good equipment. I would like your recommendations give the following criteria:
1. I would like to be able to mount the amp and sub in the spare tire well so the equipment would have to be fairly small. Will I be able to find good quality, good sounding equipment that will be a good mate with the MB Quart speakers and be small enough to fit in the spare tire well?
2. Any head units that will hold multiple CDs and fit in the stock opening or will I have to buy a CD changer too?
3. Will I need to consider any other pieces of equipment besides amp, head unit and sub?
4. What is a reasonable amount of money I should expect to spend for decent equipment?
As you probably guessed, I do have LOTS of pictures or everything that will at some point will show up here when time permits.
Your thoughts?
03-27-2005, 09:59 PM
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I found the same state of affairs on my GTS. My PO's installer was not so careful when installing the aftermarket speakers in the door. I cringe everytime I think about the door surgery he did. So, I feel your pain. I think that you will not be able to use a stock amp because it is 2 ohm and the MB Quarts are 4 ohm. That said you are looking at aftermarket amps and there are precious few that will fit in the 928 out of sight. I too wanted to go to stock. I ended up with a Becker 220 head unit and a 6 cd changer. Recently, I sold the changer and wired in my Ipod to the Becker. I have the mounting bracket for the changer and you are welcome to it. I still have a custom subwoofer enclosure with 2 10 inch subs and a pair of Kenwood amps left over. I may reinstall them because the 928s just eat up bass. I have seen some very nice enclosures. I thought Samathas was pretty nice at last years SITM.
Good luck with your project.
Good luck with your project.
03-27-2005, 10:18 PM
#3
Drifting
Your going to need a 4 channel amp. I too have a MB Quart componet speaker system, I added a Sony 600w 4 channel and a powered amp. If your stereo store has any left you can save big $ on discontinued models.
jason
jason
03-27-2005, 11:48 PM
#4
Three Wheelin'
You might want to check out Sterling Gee's page. It's quite comprehensive. Not exactly as low-profile as what you've mentioned, but as others point out, there just isn't a lot of room to hide things.
http://www.928sg.com/audio.htm
http://www.928sg.com/sub.htm
My car has a similar box/amp cutout that the PO made. Not nearly as nice as Sterling's, but it works. I've got a Sony 6-channel amp, and Boston Acoustics speakers. I'd plan to upgrade the speakers to MB Quart sometime in the future.
http://www.928sg.com/audio.htm
http://www.928sg.com/sub.htm
My car has a similar box/amp cutout that the PO made. Not nearly as nice as Sterling's, but it works. I've got a Sony 6-channel amp, and Boston Acoustics speakers. I'd plan to upgrade the speakers to MB Quart sometime in the future.
03-28-2005, 02:03 AM
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Chuck Z,
Eclipse make some of the best CD Headunits, so i would keep it if it is a high end model.
If you want Multiple CD in dash check out Nakamichi MB-X, understated and classy.
Murarie.
Eclipse make some of the best CD Headunits, so i would keep it if it is a high end model.
If you want Multiple CD in dash check out Nakamichi MB-X, understated and classy.
Murarie.
03-28-2005, 11:33 AM
#6
Three Wheelin'
Chuck Z,
As Murarie said, your Eclipse CD is a well made unit, provided you like the look of the piece as it sits in your console. Much of the digital performance differences are hard to detect (given that you've got the features you like) in the car atmosphere, so I weight appearance and ease-of-use very heavily.
Depending on how much you like to rock, you could definitely get away with running a setup like mine, wherein my Eclipse in-dash CD powers all of the speakers except the 10" Lightning Audio sub that's powered by an Eclipse 2 channel amp (bridged, mono). As you can see, the sub is flush mounted in particle board, and the amp sits below, in the spare tire well, which is covered in Dynamat sound insulator. My amp is small enough that it does not impede access to the battery box while in place, so aside from having no spare tire, the setup isn't troublesome in any other way.
My system pumps pretty loud and clean, enough for 95% of my demands. With windows down cruising at speed, I lose the feel of the bass; that's my only complaint, but I'm a hip-hopper!
For a similar setup to mine, I'd budget $200 on the sub, and $500 on an amp, plus a couple hundred for miscellaneous materials (cables, wood) and labor. If you do it really nicely and run another 4 channel amp for the full range speakers (maybe mounted in factory location by passenger door?), add another $500. I'm thinking of this pricing as from a sound shop, not DIY.
As Murarie said, your Eclipse CD is a well made unit, provided you like the look of the piece as it sits in your console. Much of the digital performance differences are hard to detect (given that you've got the features you like) in the car atmosphere, so I weight appearance and ease-of-use very heavily.
Depending on how much you like to rock, you could definitely get away with running a setup like mine, wherein my Eclipse in-dash CD powers all of the speakers except the 10" Lightning Audio sub that's powered by an Eclipse 2 channel amp (bridged, mono). As you can see, the sub is flush mounted in particle board, and the amp sits below, in the spare tire well, which is covered in Dynamat sound insulator. My amp is small enough that it does not impede access to the battery box while in place, so aside from having no spare tire, the setup isn't troublesome in any other way.
My system pumps pretty loud and clean, enough for 95% of my demands. With windows down cruising at speed, I lose the feel of the bass; that's my only complaint, but I'm a hip-hopper!
For a similar setup to mine, I'd budget $200 on the sub, and $500 on an amp, plus a couple hundred for miscellaneous materials (cables, wood) and labor. If you do it really nicely and run another 4 channel amp for the full range speakers (maybe mounted in factory location by passenger door?), add another $500. I'm thinking of this pricing as from a sound shop, not DIY.
03-28-2005, 02:58 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Hey Chuck,
Just keep the Eclipse, they make awesome stuff (I only run Eclipse).
For the amp, I would hands down buy a Zapco. They are fairly small compared to others, and have phenominal sound quality. You'll spend $500+ for a good four channel.
For a sub, I've found that the Adire Audio Brahma 10" blows out anything I've ever used, and I've worked for a custom stereo shop! A friend of mine owns the company and I'm a dealer for them, and would not recommend any sub under $1000 over the Brahma. (www.adireaudio.com to see the sub and specs). That will run you about $300 for the sub, but keep in mind you'll want another amp to run the sub, so tack on at least $250 for that too, for a good sub amp.
Thats my advice, if you need the sub, let me know, they're working on doing a custom install in my 928 anyway, so I'm up there from time to time
.
Just keep the Eclipse, they make awesome stuff (I only run Eclipse).
For the amp, I would hands down buy a Zapco. They are fairly small compared to others, and have phenominal sound quality. You'll spend $500+ for a good four channel.
For a sub, I've found that the Adire Audio Brahma 10" blows out anything I've ever used, and I've worked for a custom stereo shop! A friend of mine owns the company and I'm a dealer for them, and would not recommend any sub under $1000 over the Brahma. (www.adireaudio.com to see the sub and specs). That will run you about $300 for the sub, but keep in mind you'll want another amp to run the sub, so tack on at least $250 for that too, for a good sub amp.
Thats my advice, if you need the sub, let me know, they're working on doing a custom install in my 928 anyway, so I'm up there from time to time
.
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03-28-2005, 04:13 PM
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I would second the Eclipse or Nak head unit recommendations. We just had an Eclipse put in my wife's 944 and are very happy with it, and the UPS man just delivered a Nak CD-400 for my shark today (after reading a lot of positive reviews about the Nak sound quality, especially if used with outboard amps).
03-28-2005, 07:16 PM
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I had a system put in my 1989 S4 which consists of an Alpine head unit CDA-9825, custom made Subwoofer Box with one 8 inch Kicker Solobarck located in the rear hatch, two sets of Boston Acoustic component systems called Boston Rally RC420. Each set consists of a 2 woofers, 2 tweeters and a two crossover networks. This set was installed in the front. Another set was installed in the rear for a total of four woofers, four tweeters and four crossovers. The speakers in the rear arm rests could accomodate a 6.5" subwoofer. The only manufacturer of one that I could find was JL Audio. The entire System is fired by a JL Audio 6 Channel Amp-Model number 6450. It sounds incredible. The 6.5" subs do not make as much bass as I would like..thus I added the enclosure after everything else was installed. The two set of component speakers were $199.00 each, deck was $219.00, sub box custom made was $259.00 and the amp was $449.00. Installation was about 8 hours. After wiring and cords and whatever the hell I needed the entire cost was a little over 2K...Ten speakers plus a sub box.....amp and deck...installation...I'm satisfied....
03-29-2005, 02:35 AM
#10
Drifting
the alpine head units are powerful enough to use without an external amp for 90% of music needs. i use these in combination with upgraded speakers in the stock locations and a sub in the spare wheel well with an external amp, much like chadster. the only other thing id say is to digitise your music collection and either get an ipod or burn your favourite albums to cd in mp3 format - much more efficent way to travel with a selection of music. alternately, i believe some head units are now featuring built in hard drives.
03-29-2005, 12:34 PM
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I disagree. Head unit amps are tiny and underdriving good speakers is not going to result in good sound. Don't believe the specs on head units as far as power is concerned.
-Joel
-Joel
03-29-2005, 12:46 PM
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Next time i put a stero system in my porsche im using a head unit that is XM ready. With 1 10 or 12 inch sub. Componet system for the front 2 speakers and just somd good 6.5s in the back. I will use a amp after the head unit for the mids and highs. Prob a 500watt+ one and a 600 for the sub.
03-30-2005, 08:42 AM
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Hey guys,
Thanks for all the great info.
I was wrong about the head unit in the GTS, it's actually an inexpensive Kenwood unit (selling on eBay for less than $100). The reason I thought it was an Eclipse unit is, there is an owners manual and remote in the file/envelope that came with the car so I just naturally assumed there was an Eclipse in the dash. How silly of me.
Anyway, you guys have given me lots to think about and I've always liked Nakamichi stuff and I always thought Eclipse was good stuff but wondered when I heard the stereo in the GTS (....read above) why it sounded so bad. The car does have great speakers in the MB Quart's including Competition crossovers (like Sterling's) and is wired professionally. Just have to put good components back in to go along with the speaker system.
I have actually been in Sterlings car and his system sounds awesome. Based on what you guys have said, I doubt I'll be able to do anything completely stealth but will try to minimize intrusion into the hatch area.
Thanks again.
Thanks for all the great info.
I was wrong about the head unit in the GTS, it's actually an inexpensive Kenwood unit (selling on eBay for less than $100). The reason I thought it was an Eclipse unit is, there is an owners manual and remote in the file/envelope that came with the car so I just naturally assumed there was an Eclipse in the dash. How silly of me.
Anyway, you guys have given me lots to think about and I've always liked Nakamichi stuff and I always thought Eclipse was good stuff but wondered when I heard the stereo in the GTS (....read above) why it sounded so bad. The car does have great speakers in the MB Quart's including Competition crossovers (like Sterling's) and is wired professionally. Just have to put good components back in to go along with the speaker system.
I have actually been in Sterlings car and his system sounds awesome. Based on what you guys have said, I doubt I'll be able to do anything completely stealth but will try to minimize intrusion into the hatch area.
Thanks again.
03-30-2005, 12:22 PM
#14
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Chuck Z wrote:
Sure you can!
If you don't mind using a false floor, you can keep your spare also. (one of my criteria when I had system installed)
Everything fits underneath.
The sub has a custom enclosure. It really thumps, I still have a hard time believing its a single ten back there.
Installed by Rob Fosset. Huntnphool@aol.com
Send him an email, I'm sure he'd be happy to answer questions. He's very familiar with 928's, he owns an '85 S.
Based on what you guys have said, I doubt I'll be able to do anything completely stealth but will try to minimize intrusion into the hatch area.
If you don't mind using a false floor, you can keep your spare also. (one of my criteria when I had system installed)
Everything fits underneath.
The sub has a custom enclosure. It really thumps, I still have a hard time believing its a single ten back there.
Installed by Rob Fosset. Huntnphool@aol.com
Send him an email, I'm sure he'd be happy to answer questions. He's very familiar with 928's, he owns an '85 S.
03-30-2005, 01:35 PM
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Any suggestions on a pre-made sub enclosure that fits in the spare tire well?
The PO had installed a fairly nice JVC/Boston setup, but then used a chintzy box over the amp in the rear cargo area, then strapped a bazooka sub on top of it. Sounds good - looks awful.
The PO had installed a fairly nice JVC/Boston setup, but then used a chintzy box over the amp in the rear cargo area, then strapped a bazooka sub on top of it. Sounds good - looks awful.