Steven Ko

Was poking around E-Bay when I came across this Euro Engine for sale:

[URL=http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2475503888]

I'm no expert on this subject at all but this doesn't seem like a Euro to me.

Don't see the Dual distributors the Euros have........

ViribusUnits

It is most certnaly not a Euro engine in the car.

The engine had an L-jet or LH-jet fuel system. Notice the fuel pressure dampaner under the cross brace.

Also, the engine has a signal distributer with the large vacuum advance and retard, giveing it the non-computerized ignition system.

The engine is a 1980-1982 US motor.

Bill Coleman

I thought the dual distributors didn't appear until '84???

If you really want to know have them get you the engine code.

Don Carter

The intake tubes are also too long. Mine are noticably shorter.

Jim V

At the risk of the guy being rennlister...it doesn't appear to be.

The twin dist. Euro was used only from 84-6; while the '80-3 Euro engines used a standard single dist.

The '80 "S" (as this is listed) would have CIS injection; this car clearly has electronic injection.

The only way to be absolutely sure is the engine code; 28/11 or 28/12 for the Euro "S"

Mark

Not a rennlister...it is renegade (the folks that stuff Chevy's in sharks). I would think they know what they are talking about

ViribusUnits

Here is a listing of fuel systems, and somewhat identifiing marks I've put togethere.

78-79 cars. K-jetronic fuels sytem, TSZ pointless tranzisterized ignition system, with the early vacuum advance/retard.

Markings, you can see the WUR under the cross brace, as well as the air. aux valve, confirming K-jet. The distributer is a single distributer unit. It also has a vacuum advance/retard unit attached to it that is large, of a diffrent shape, and has to vacuum lines running to it. There are other motors out there that look the same. Notice 80-83 Euro, and Euro S

80-83 Euro and Euro S motor. Idential apperences to the 78-79 cars. Only way to confirm is by checking the engine code. However, I belive, but can not confirm, that the 83 Euro and 83 Euro S got the later, smaller single port vacuum advance like the 83-84 US S cars.

84-86 Euro motor, a cross over model. LH-jet fuel ignition, and a spider intake, dual distributers, NO WUR, NO air aux. valve visible. You can however see a fuel dampaner under the frount cross brace. The unique dual distributers, spider intake, and the fuel dampaner pretty much confirm identification.

80-82 US motor. L-jetronic fuel injections, TSU transizterized pointless ignition. Spider style intake, Single distributer, larger, early style advance/retard on the distributer with two vacuum lines going to it. No WUR, and the air.aux vavle is burryed unto the rear of the spider. The fuel pressure dampaner is visible under the cross brace.

83-84 US S motor. Same as 80-82 motor, EXCEPT the vacuum retard/advance unit on the distributer has been replaced by a smaller, single port vacuum advance unit.

Notice, the L-jet, or LH-jet fuel dampaner under the cross brace, and the two vacuum lines going to the advance/retard unit on the distributer. Thats is some form of US motor as only the US motors got the L-jet fuel system, and a single distributer.

Rob Roy

I had e-mailed the seller requesting the engine code earlier. I'll post it if and when I get it

Jon F

You can distinguish the '80-'83 Euro S from other CIS 928s by its intake. The runners are shorter, smoother, and less curved than any other 16v intake.

Euro S intake (click)

Non-S intake (click)

mark kibort

you cant tell on the US 84 vs euro 84 by its runners, they are almost identical, unless you have a caliper in your hand to measure diameters

also, the car is Ljet, you can see the idle cut off switch, near the TB. this means its not a euro TB, as ive done this mod many times.
next, single distributer, as all euro 84-86 with fuel injection have 2 distributers and MASS air flow (MAF)

IF it was a pre 84 euro, it would be CIS, and you can clearly see injectors.

distributor has vacuum RETARD, meaning its a '82 US model.

even a hybrid of euro vs US, would have the intake from the euro, and it still looks to be the little US. probably even the 4.5 liter too! remember US 82s are 4.5 liter and euro S 's were 4.7s from 80 to 86

its probably just a 4.5 us 1982

mk

ive emailed the guy, would be a great spare engine for scots 82 4.5 liter racer!

Parnelli Joneser

I'm glad I'm not the only one baffled by all this engine business.
I've admired 928's since I was a kid and only came into actual ownership in January. Naturally I had to buy a hermaphrodited '83 Euro S with a US motor retaining the CIS. The original M28/12 300hp motor was included and is apparently sound, along with a crate of L Jet intake off of the M28/20 currently in the car. Of course I didn't know all of that before I bought it. I had done some nominal market research and considered long before buying what is very much a car needing a thorough freshening of about everything. I'm still confused(was before I bought it anyway) but I've never had this much fun cussing at a car or it's previous owners, of whom I know zero. It's such a cool car, makes up for all of it by just sitting in my driveway. So for the '83 Euro S that runs and drives and the original engine included in the sale I paid $3000 and expect to spend less than $2000 to make it viable for high-speed desert assaults on Nevada, yee-haw!

mark kibort

The only thing of value on a euro 4.7 engine, is the intake and the heads.
the short block is useless to be bolted to the US stuff. better to spend the extr $1000 and buy a used 5 liter short block of a US 85-86.

anyway, that said, you would then just bolt on all the euro intake stuff along with the heads to the new short block, or your existing 4.7 liter engine. (but, the new euro heads, may have valve clearance issues with the cut outs on the US 84 pistons) anyway, the main gains are in the heads, cams and intake. and, as you have seen in the other thread, there is slight mods that are needed to be done to fit the new larger, euro throttle body to the existing US intake injection LJet system AFM.

other than that, its a pretty straight forward bolt on.

certainly, the US 84s and euro 84s are completely different animals and have entirely different injection, spark and computer systems. not even worth the effort for a conversion. Us the euro intake and heads and bolt it on to a 5 liter short block.

MK

Rob Roy

Seller e-mailed me back. The engine code is M28/13. So based on the 928 Specialists website, this is a US spec motor from a 1980 5 speed manual developing 220 hp and 265 ft/lb with a 9.0:1 comp ratio.

mark kibort

so, its a 4.5 liter to boot.

but i thought the seller has driven " a lot of 2 valve 928s " and this was the fastest one he has driven!! so much for the butt dyno.

mk

Parnelli Joneser

mark,
Thanks for the information on engines, I'm learning more everyday.
In my particular case, the Euro motor was pulled (this is the seller's story) because he found water in the oil and a friend and "Porsche expert" told him the best course was to find a replacement engine and forget going inside the engine, too expensive ... so he did just that. He claims to have paid $1900 for an entire '83 US unit and swapped it in but kept the Euro intake with it's far simpler CIS.
While he hooked up the oil cooler it slowly dawned on him that maybe the oil cooler could of had something to do with that water/oil issue...I think it was about there that he lost his taste for Porsches. He got it running and driving again, but not much else. It kind of had an overall "hand-tight" quality about it, like someone had alot of good intentions, once. I mostly believe the story. Claimed to have done the timing belt while doing the R&R. No confirmation yet if the water pump was done too...

So if I have this right, the higher compression of the 300 hp 28/12 is gained through a smaller combustion chamber, or more likely a shallower one, than the US 28/20. Yet they also had different pistons? Or your concern about valve clearance is because of that shallower chamber + the presumably higher lift of the valves places some of the moving bits in the same locations at varying times?
The simpler question would have been- Is the Euro M28/11,12 an interference unit and the US M28/19,20 a NON-interference unit?
Thanks for sharing your expertise with new owners like me.