Good investment to convert 87 to 89 S4 from auto to manual ?
 

Hello all, I hope this question is in the right part of this forum. Please let me know if there is a better forum for this question. I have been seriously been investigating purchasing a 928 for a few weeks now, and have a basic idea of what I might want to do, but wanted your advice as 928 experts. Right now it is obvious that manuals are in much more demand than autos, and with the supply being inverse to the demand, manual 928s in general seem to bring quite a premium compared to autos. My plan would be to start with a well maintained but middle mileage car, probably between 90 and 140k miles. I would definitely not want to disturb one of the well maintained low mileage cars that would only get more scarce over time. The plan would be to use all existing 928 factory parts, and try to make it like it came out of the factory as a manual, even the small details like the gauge cluster. People wish there were more manual 928s in general, so I would be hoping to increase their numbers a touch as authentically as possible. I know the project and maintaining a 928 in general can be costly, and I'm ok with that. My real question to this community is, would the "928 market" and 928 enthusiasts see this as added value above the same 87-89 s4 with an auto, or would the car be less attractive/ valuable since it had been modified from original? The last thing I want to do is spend a bunch of time and money on a project like this, and end up with a car that is worth less than what I paid for just the car, and a bunch of people pissed at me for "ruining" a nice car. Thoughts?

I don't think it will be certain to add any value - most buyers would likely be a little concerned about such a major modification. Usually these AT - MT modifications are not done super well and so aren't really comparable functionally to an original MT car. If this modification was done by a recognized 928 mechanic that would have some value add (but would be very expensive and I'm not aware of any who would do this for you). You may also get some better traction if you documented the conversion here on rennlist step by step pictorially and were clear on all the changes and sourcing to bring it to stock manual condition.

However the real reason for most to do this is for your own enjoyment. If you then participated extensively in local 928 events with the car you could build up some (local at least) trust that the conversion was robust over some number of years. In the short term without attribution to a 928 expert OR a history of successful operation I think it likely just hurts value.

Alan

Modified cars are almost always worth less.

Unless you can get an auto car with a tranny that's gone bad and a manual car that's been crashed (or something along those lines where you get both cars for next to nothing), the cost of the cars plus the time/effort of doing the conversion would not pay for itself.

I don't think you'd end up with a 'bunch of people pissed at you' for it, except for a few purists who seem to exist just to get pissed off at others.

Something to remember is that the 928 is a GT, not a sports car.
The auto 'fits' that role quite well. One of the reasons there were so many made.

thanks Alan, great reply. Definitely seems like something that if done, needs to be done right and with care. Like the idea of participating in the forum. I would enjoy the project but would also want to know the Porsche community appreciated the project, as there will never be more 928s, only less. We will see, a lot depends on what cars pop up for sale.

My suggestion if you want a 5 speed buy one
put the money you didn’t spend on a conversation into anew set of shocks and tires and drive the car

No.

The parts (cost) and time/effort sums up to more than the difference in price between an auto vs. man S4.

I have 3 auto and 3 manual 928’s. I prefer the autos.

thanks all for the input, i appreciate it! if i end up buying something, i'll let you know! let the hunt continue........

IMO the only manual conversion worth doing would be to the Corvette Z06 6-speed transmission that 928 MS sells the kit for and why I did that to my existing 79 5-speed. The much smoother and faster shifting from the more modern transmission makes the car faster and with a modified powerplant the gear ratios work much better with the extra HP, but I'm not a purist by any means and mod my cars for my own enjoyment, which is why my 928 also doesn't have a roof and has 911 hardback sport seats in it.

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/rennlis...572251a78e.jpg

financially no. The only mod to the body of the car is really the firewall mod, and it's difficult to screw that up. Cutting the tabs in the shifter hole is the only other mod to the body. The rest is just swapping parts. I've done the auto to manual conversion and it was easy to do. I'm in the middle of the mod to the 6 speed and it is a multitude more difficult.

investment for smiles per mile? absolutely. The pay off is every time you drive it.

In reality, there are so few auto to manual conversions (probably less than 20 worldwide) we don't really know what the impact will be on value to a buyer after the conversion. even fewer of the 6 speed conversions (5 or less). It really boils down to what the owner wants.

Love the seat transplant! This is just the 2nd one I’ve ever seen done, the other used a set from a Cayman I think. Very good idea, at least to us non purists. I have to believe that the Vette transplant is a blast, but costly for replacement rear tires!

Would you mind posting a few more photos of your cabriolet? A side view at least.

golden advice.

I have this exact swap in mind. I have an 87 auto with rubstrip delete and a 43k mile 89 manual donor with a salvage title and dreadful reconstruction effort. Cannot and wouldn't want to title it for the street. In its defense, it has an X-pipe, no cats, GT mid-mufflers and RMB. Loud as expletive deleted and fast as expletive deleted. :-) wicked.

In addition to master cylinder, pedal and shifter modification there is a wiring change at the CE panel and spare tire well to get the reverse lights to work. You'll need the starter lockout relay jumper, too.

I'll acquire the master cylinder mount from Carl. No need to reinvent the wheel.

I do this because I want to, not because I expect to make money on it. A/T to manual swap values are in the mind of the beholder. Effort is not insubstantial. In my case the entire drivetrain is being swapped.

If you want a manual, buy one - great advice.

Thanks a ton for all the input!

Just as a side note:

Ya didn't get any 'hate', didja? :D

Nobody railed against 'destroying the originality' with this.

You were given practical, realistic advice about it.

The community on here is pretty cool.

If you want to find a car, start with the 'for sale' sticky thread. Start at the back and work towards the front. Older posts and ads aren't removed or marked 'sold', so anything more than a few months old could be 'stale'.

When you find one, make sure you look it over properly. There's a link to a good PPI checklist in Worf's (Dave's) sigline, post #6.