Notices
928 Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: 928 Specialists

'91 928 GT - with GTS CoA?

 
Old 07-09-2019, 01:03 AM
  #1  
Benzine
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Benzine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: PNW
Posts: 10
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default '91 928 GT - with GTS CoA?

Hello all,

I'm new to this forum (and 928's) but I guess I'll jump right in! Back story, about 8 months ago I purchased a 1991 928 GT with... 196k miles on it... from the widow of the long-time previous owner, an engineer and prominent local pilot who babied the car, loved it like a child, etc etc. Unfortunately I was unable to acquire the service records from the estate so went in assuming it'd need everything and my mechanic went through it thoroughly. She still has a few quirks, like needing to be left on a tender, but drives so smooth and exudes that solid teutonic build quality.

After enjoying the car for a while I was curious about its original options and decided to get a Porsche CoA (PPS?), which I know aren't world famous for their accuracy or detail, however mine came back with a pretty glaring error. Porsche listed the model as "1991 928 GTS Coupe". Welllll, the car is very clearly not a GTS, no flares, taillight panel, wrong model year, etc. Obviously an error, right?

I politely requested that Porsche correct the error on the CoA and send an updated copy, they (not so politely) declined..

So waited a week and reached out again hoping to speak to someone different, explaining the error, the non-GTS I have in my garage that is now starting to feel conscious about living up to expectations of being a GTS, etc. and got a response that was basically "we are Porsche, we have way more information than you ever will... it's a GTS."

Is there a scenario where Porsche North America is technically correct and based on the VIN it is somehow a GTS but built as a GT? Or are they just being real stubborn about reprinting my CoA?

Any insight is appreciated, thanks!

Benzine is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 01:39 AM
  #2  
Jason89s4
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Dallas
Posts: 234
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Congrats on your purchase!
I know that you will find answers to your questions from the great folks here, but pictures of your car and the COA would go a loooong way to answering them.
Becoming a paid member of this forum will allow you to post pictures, and will easily pay for itself in the knowledge you will receive from the users.
Looking forward to those pics!
Jason
Jason89s4 is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 02:06 AM
  #3  
928cs
Super User
 
928cs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Le Mans, France
Posts: 2,444
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

With a picture of the build sticker, under the trunk's carpet, it would be easy to tell you more about this 928.

Welcome to the Sharks tank
928cs is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:51 AM
  #4  
C531XHO
User
 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Edinburgh
Posts: 315
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default

Post your VIN and engine code. For a 91 GT your VIN should start 92MS and be in the 810001 to 815000 range (Assuming US car)
C531XHO is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 05:53 AM
  #5  
928cs
Super User
 
928cs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Le Mans, France
Posts: 2,444
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

928 GT: M28/47 engine with G28/55 gearbox.
928 GTS (manual): M28/49 engine with G28/57 gearbox.
928cs is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 08:46 AM
  #6  
drooman
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
drooman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: CT and FL
Posts: 1,192
Received 28 Likes on 17 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Benzine View Post
Hello all,

I'm new to this forum (and 928's) but I guess I'll jump right in! Back story, about 8 months ago I purchased a 1991 928 GT with... 196k miles on it... from the widow of the long-time previous owner, an engineer and prominent local pilot who babied the car, loved it like a child, etc etc. Unfortunately I was unable to acquire the service records from the estate so went in assuming it'd need everything and my mechanic went through it thoroughly. She still has a few quirks, like needing to be left on a tender, but drives so smooth and exudes that solid teutonic build quality.

After enjoying the car for a while I was curious about its original options and decided to get a Porsche CoA (PPS?), which I know aren't world famous for their accuracy or detail, however mine came back with a pretty glaring error. Porsche listed the model as "1991 928 GTS Coupe". Welllll, the car is very clearly not a GTS, no flares, taillight panel, wrong model year, etc. Obviously an error, right?

I politely requested that Porsche correct the error on the CoA and send an updated copy, they (not so politely) declined..

So waited a week and reached out again hoping to speak to someone different, explaining the error, the non-GTS I have in my garage that is now starting to feel conscious about living up to expectations of being a GTS, etc. and got a response that was basically "we are Porsche, we have way more information than you ever will... it's a GTS."

Is there a scenario where Porsche North America is technically correct and based on the VIN it is somehow a GTS but built as a GT? Or are they just being real stubborn about reprinting my CoA?

Any insight is appreciated, thanks!

Couple of things to consider:
First post your VIN in this thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...-79-a-220.html
Double check that the VIN on your COA matches the VIN on your car
Check that all the VINS on your car match each other
You COULD have a weird transition car. GTS appeared in 92 in Rest of World market, some of these may have been built in the 91 calendar year. There are GTs around with Factory GTS quarter panels, maybe the opposite is true as well. This is pretty unlikely but new weird iterations do surface sometimes.

Finally, the PCA COA system has been known to be wrong. If you have an address outside of United States you can inquire to Porsche Germany for the information. All requests from USA addresses are referred to PCA.
drooman is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 09:18 AM
  #7  
SwayBar
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
SwayBar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago Bears
Posts: 2,407
Received 4 Likes on 4 Posts
Default

Very interesting thread!
SwayBar is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 09:57 AM
  #8  
Harvey928
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Harvey928's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cottonwood SD
Posts: 465
Received 6 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Looking forward to seeing how this plays out.
Harvey928 is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 10:56 AM
  #9  
jcorenman
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
jcorenman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Friday Harbor, WA
Posts: 3,578
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Default

Benzine, welcome! Where in the PNW are you? It's a big place.

As pointed out, VIN# is key, as is the options sticker under the carpet in the rear, and the black build sticker on the driver's door frame. Pictures of those would be terrific.

Also please post the engine and trans numbers. The engine# is stamped on a rectangular "boss" on the front of the engine block, visible under the mater-bridge and just left (facing engine) of the oil-filler cap. Bring a flashlight. The first line is the type code, "M28/" followed by a number as 928cs pointed out above. A second line will be the engine serial#.

The transmission number is stamped on the bottom at the back edge of the transmission case. The first part is type code, e.g. "G27/57" for a GTS, followed by the serial#.

Cheers, Jim
jcorenman is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 10:56 AM
  #10  
NoVector
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
NoVector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 2,417
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Benzine View Post
"we are Porsche, we have way more information than you ever will... it's a GTS."
NatŘrlich... I would stop right there and run with it. Maybe forward that correspondence to the Porsche museum and ask if they would like to have the car on display as it's the only one in existence; run an e-bay ad asking $500K stating its pedigree; blast it out on Facebook. Have some fun with it.
NoVector is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 02:07 PM
  #11  
Benzine
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Benzine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: PNW
Posts: 10
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Thanks for the patience! still working on getting photos of the car, I think the ones I took were too big :/




Benzine is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 02:16 PM
  #12  
Rob Edwards
Archive Gatekeeper
Rennlist Member
 
Rob Edwards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 13,731
Likes: 0
Received 11 Likes on 5 Posts
Default

Porsche is never wrong, except when they are. It's a '91 GT, not a GTS.

They're off by a single letter. Maybe Porsche will sell you some white-out?

WP0AA2922MS810404

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=WP0AA2922MS810404

1991 928 GT
C02 - 49 state US market
M28.47 -engine serial number range 85M 00001 >50000
G28.55 - transmission serial # range G 2855 3M 00001>20000

M418 - rubstrips
M498 -Deletion of model designation on rear end
M570 - Rear AC
M650 - Sunroof
M691 - Alpine CD2 (USA-Canada only)

Last edited by Rob Edwards; 07-09-2019 at 02:32 PM.
Rob Edwards is offline  
The following users liked this post:
928cs (07-09-2019)
Old 07-09-2019, 02:32 PM
  #13  
Hacker-Pschorr
Super Moderator - Cracklin' Rosie
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
 
Hacker-Pschorr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Up Nort
Posts: 10,063,056
Received 40 Likes on 27 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by SwayBar View Post
Very interesting thread!
I don't know if interesting is the word, just shows how inept Porsche is at making COA's.

IIRC not long ago a 928 owner received a COA which stated 17" Boxster Wheels.

Another GT labelled as a GTS on COA:
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ml#post7929093

Think about it, what's more likely:
1. They secretly built a GTS without the body changes a year or so early
2. Someone accidentally typed an "S" in the model name

Add in some German stubbornness trying to get them to admit they made a mistake......

Save the $$$, see this post and make your own:
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ml#post3996543
Hacker-Pschorr is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 02:35 PM
  #14  
Benzine
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Benzine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: PNW
Posts: 10
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Thank you for the confirmation!!

Guess if Porsche is too lazy then I can just photoshop the 'S' out
Benzine is offline  
Old 07-09-2019, 02:46 PM
  #15  
NoVector
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
NoVector's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 2,417
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 3 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Rob Edwards View Post
Porsche is never wrong, except when they are. It's a '91 GT, not a GTS.
Man, what a buzz-kill. That just knocked $450K off the asking price..
NoVector is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: