928 forums - is there one more popular than rennlist
 

curious if there are other forums that are more popular for the 928 or that have an equal amount of content.

Not that I'm aware of.

Pelican has some good stuff, but is many of the same people. And nowhere near as active.

The FB groups are interesting, but from a technical standpoint are questionable at best. There are 'more than a few' people who claim 'expertise' and offer advice which ranges from 'piss-poor' to actually dangerous (as in - may damage the car). Sean's group is the best I'm a part of from the tech view. He does a pretty good job of weeding out the crap. He, Erik, Colin & a few others actually know what they are talking about, too.

The 1st thing about fight club is that you cannot talk about fight club. There was another forum that took off or a bit but we all ended up back here.

If I ran the world, Porsche Club of America would host a site very similar to Rennlist with a forum for each model--and it would become the knowledge base. It's in their [Porsche's] best interest to know our issues/concerns and needs and provide them transparency on their products. And more importantly, it would ensure the site is sustainable. Can you imagine the knowledge lost if this board went away?

Can you imagine the knowledge lost due to image hosting failures?

This could be a thread in itself, but it’s a good question.

I’m a PCA member and a 928 guy, it makes sense. I know there are dedicated enthusiasts groups for each model listed in the back of Panorama. As to what level that goes to within PCA I couldn’t venture to guess. My hunch would be that it is little more then Adam or John V. being kind enough to take tech questions from the membership.

In in terms of Porsche’s best interest, which is a entirely different question and concern...

I would only be guessing.
My latest theory would be somewhere between disinterest and the fact that they would be steering potential clients away from Porsche Classic if they facilitated a tech forum.

I'm actually glad that PCA doesn't run rennlist due to the club politics. It wasn't too long ago when PCA members shunned anyone driving a water cooled Porsche. Not being part of PCA allowed this forum and others to flourish, and to give people options.

Not gonna happen.

Given PCNA's propensity to ignore or dismiss problem issues, they'd never go for an honest and open forum.

The Torque Tube/Flex Plate/Thrust bearing issue is the most obvious one with the 928.

996s have the IMS bearing. Earlier Cayennes have the coolant pipe issue. Later ones have the vario-cam & transfer case issues.
It took a class action lawsuit to get PCNA to admit there was a problem with the pipes.

Do you believe a corporate run forum would have the 'vigorous' discussions on that type of thing that happen here?

And how about 'new and improved' parts? Do you think they'd like the PKT much? How about Greg's oil control pieces?

And, last but certainly not least, what about the DIY fixes?
The early Cayennes have a problem with the cardan shaft carrier bearing support. The rubber support is stupid thin and tears out eventually. The dealer will tell you that you need an entire new shaft. About $2k.
There is an ingenious 'MacGuyver' fix, called the "Jimi Fix" that involves about $15 worth of heater hose and a bunch of zip ties. 1/2 hour or so of labor.
I kinda doubt that sort of thing would stay up for long on a factory site.

Probably 10X the activity over on the Facebook 928 groups vs rennlist. This forum still has some great old posts that are invaluable, but most everyone is over there now. It’s easier to share from anywhere in the world and it’s picture friendly

The problem with facebook, is that its a now sort of environment.. So the same topics would get hashed over and over. The good thing about rennlist is that it has the search and archive functions.

I'm on a number of other "make" forums for my own car fleet and research purposes.

Rennlist is probably the best specific car forum there is on the whole internet.

Go look at any MB/Audi/BMW/VW/Chevy/etc specific forum and it's all just steaming garbage.

RL folks just have the wrenching/figure it out genes, I guess.

Some places like Yellowbullet, Speedtalk, Hotrod/HAMB are entertaining and useful for general go-fast info but not going to help you with a 928 instrument cluster bulb.

And the avatars... :cheers:
I tried searching the archives on Facebook, once.

Maybe, but Facebook has a horrible interface and like others have said trying to sort and search specific subject matter is useless. Not to mention that there is way more non-car talk stuff that goes on in those in those groups. I really don't care to hear about anyone's political opinions when I am trying to figure out the best way to set the timing in my car.

The Mx-5 Miata forum is very good. https://forum.miata.net/vb/index.php

Can you imagine the knowledge already lost through posting images on ephemeral image-hosting sites? Go back through the "Official Random 928..." to name just one thread where valuable images have been lost, because they were posted on sites like PhonyBucket, and are now just gone...

I agree that the search feature is not as good, but only if you’re not part of all the groups. Once you join all the groups, one search gives you all the results...it’s priceless.

Plus, it has the added benefit of actually seeing who is giving advice and things. To me this is priceless, as random posters give ‘expert’ opinions on different subjects. This is probably the main driver of growth in FB groups

Just to clarify, PCA is a non-profit org. But I get the gist as it's run like a corporation with a hierarchical structure and for all I know, heavily influenced by the "mother ship."


I haven't seen that in a long, long time. In fact, I think there's more interest in 924, 944, 928, 968 as they're not seen as often as the 996, 997, boxster, etc.

It's pretty obvious that Porsche is making a major push to bring the "classics" (long in the hands of independent repair facilities) back into the "fold"...to help support their dealer network.

Very doubtful they want to be involved with a Forum that tells members how to fix their own cars....very counter productive.

absolutely agree. a forum has a far greater capability to compile and reference data - FB turns into a stream of information that gets stacked and stacked and then buried. clearly, this still seems to be the best location for 928 information. some models tend to have that 'central location' where most of the knowledgable people hang out and clearly for the 928 that's right here. thanks!

Disagree as to Facebook as a viable alternative, and I do not believe at all that it has "10X the activity" of this board. This is the oracle right here. FB cannot hope to compete with the knowledge base and searchable results (do a Google search - not one FB post pops up). I belong to the FB groups, and the activity is not what it is here; here the activity ebbs and flows. Also, there are many bad results/advice there as anywhere. The key guys there post here (Sean, Colin, Jake, et al), and have posted here for a lot longer than they've been active on FB. Also, there are many of the top 928 guys who are not on FB and probably never will be. This forum gives you everything you need. There is also a rennlist DIY forum that has great archival stuff. As an alternative, there is the 928 Owner's Club. Not an active forum by any means, but a good repository of critical DIY material - it's a great back up to this site. Once you are around here a little longer, you'll see.

No, this place is the best!

Been reading rennlist since 2001, it’s got great information. It should definitely be archived. It definitely can’t be replaced. That being said, it’s the past and it’s limited to the US.

I’d join all the groups on FB, they’re growing daily. In 2-3 years, it’ll probably be the only choice going forward

How so? There are a lot of international people on Rennlist, always has been.

Actually FB by design gets worse as it grows. There are so many 928 groups now it's borderline ridiculous. I now see on a regular basis people posting the exact same question to 6-7 groups all at the same time to get an answer.
The only way FB could get significantly more useful is if every 928 group banded together and merged (yes this is possible). A while ago threads were started suggesting the two biggest groups do just that, and the owners / moderators of those groups wanted nothing to do with it. It's obvious they each want their own "sandbox" to control.

There are also multiple private 928 groups made up of sub-clique's of people excluding those they don't like. At last with Rennlist / Pelican / 928 OC Forums they are at least read only to everyone. The private 928 gorups on FB you cannot even read or search the context.

The format of FB is archaic, reminds me of the early internet forums form the 90's with multiple sub-threads under main threads. It's very difficult to follow along with large subjects and quite often someone gets a bug up their butt about the direction of the thread and deletes their sub-thread wiping out the entire conversation! It's horrible.

FB is a "now" social media platform. It was never designed for long term diagnostic and archived R&D type of threads. Some of the most useful answers I see posted on FB threads are links to Rennlist....that says everything.

Rennlist is always going to be the best resource for 928 information. It's got its issues and I've pulled back a ton of posting due to those but unless IB decides to yank it completely, it will continue to be the #1 place to go for information on our cars. I only started the 928 Docs group so I could get all the 928 stuff off my personal page and keep it uncluttered and use it for friends and family. The Docs group sorta of took a life of it's own though and am happy with what we are doing there and have to thank the smart guys for hanging out and having some fun in there, while making it useful to others. No way in hell it could replace this place though.

I enjoy seeing 928 content on Facebook but don't really give much credence to technical feedback there.

Facebook seems to be optimized for Picture-rich 928 social content and QUICK technical feedback, like what row of Home Depot to find a shut-off valve in place of your Heater Valve ;)

Invariably, deep technical content on FB gets a link from RL shared there to redirect (or avoid regurgitating) the conversation. I honestly think any statement that says FB is where it's at and RL is dying or FB's 928 community is growing exponentially is pretty inaccurate.

Easy answer

No

I'll take a friendly wager on that not happening. And if that does happen, I'll be going real old school and mailing people invites to my place for technical GTGs/BBQs 4 times a year. :)

& how do I get preemptively added to the invite list?

Fb is a good place for pictures, groups, 3rd category informstions(except Sean R docs group, very very good)... But on FB you will never be master in your own home. I hope you know what I mean.

I've never seen a Facebook page show up when searching for information on the 928's or really any cars or anything else for that matter. Facebook isn't concerned with gathering information on your cars or retaining that information or even making it searchable over the long term, they're concerned with gathering information on you and your habits and your network of friends to drown you in advertising.... Facebook is a closed environment and anyone who doesn't have an account simply isn't allowed to even look in. I've never had a Facebook account and still don't but they continually make the news for major privacy breaches, spying, all the political nonsense and even for arbitrarily shutting down groups because a member posted some inappropriate content (I believe there was a group going around doing that on purpose to have a bunch of groups shut down).

I think in a perfect world, Rennlist would be run by a non-profit organization (unaffiliated and not controlled by Porsche so we can have open discussion) and Porsche would sponsor things along with other vendors and we'd have Porsche representatives on here doing customer outreach and support. It really bothers me that the experts on here are doing more to support these cars than Porsche themselves. If Porsche Classics was doing owner outreach and providing valuable information for the enthusiasts, I don't believe they'd be stealing away any business from themselves. You can search these forums and find detailed explanations on how to tear down and rebuild every aspect of these cars. The workshop manuals are easily available online. The same is available for every other model that Porsche Classics works with. What it would do however is establish their credibility and sell their services. I think they need to take revenue sources other than selling new cars more seriously.

Also! While we're on the topic, I really think there should be something like a Wiki to act as the repository of knowledge on these cars. There are so many useful pieces of information spread across thousands of threads and it would be great if there was a place where it was all consolidated into a consistent format.

Discuss on a forum, look up information on a Wiki, and social network on a social network.

Knowledge
 

So it's a popularity contest, eh? Then I have to ask -

Are you looking for entertainment or technical know-how? I don't understand why this has gone to 30+ posts. The best fights and the best gurus are here. :evilgrin:

... and a big push to get 4-door owners into the fold.

Unfortunately, I can't completely disagree with Sterling's comment. Not that there aren't any PCA politics (there most certainly are), but most of the personality (or perceived personality) of PCA is gained through experience at the region level. If X region is run by a bunch of a$$holes, then that reputation sticks to the group and the folks that are turned off by that get a bad taste for PCA and either don't show up at events or don't renew. Even today, out of 145 regions, I'm sure there's at least one out there like that. It doesn't even take that much to push folks away. A simple "no one greeted and welcomed me to my first event" is all it takes.

Ideally, it's the cars that bring members together. At least in our region, we couldn't care less what kind of Porsche you have and it's been that way for as long as I've been around. We've met some of our best friends through PCA.... and that's what it should be all about.

Because this is Rennlist...

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy" is what comes to mind when people mention Facebook.

Hugo

Yup
That's why the best groups have gone 100% private and are not even viewable to the general public.

And very picky about who gets in them.

This forum is as close to social media as I get.
Literally.
I assumed Facebook was only about connecting with old girlfriends or relatives sending me pictures of their cats.

Now I have to re-evaluate.
;)

It's also a lot of people taking pictures of their food. For some reason, lots of people photograph their food then post it on FB. Never understood that.

+1.
I'm on Rennlist and that's it.
No need for me to know what the so called "friends" have done or eated last night!

As long as I have news of you guys, I'm good! :)

Renllist is the best.

Since I do not do Disgracebook, and never will, I am all for keeping this forum as the central source for information and promotion of the 928 as a fun and collectable car.

The huge amount of information shared here is simply incredible and we are all in huge debt to the real contributors of this resource. I mostly used it as a reading resource for about ten years before trying to contribute or even participate in the conversation. Pelican is the only other place where significant information is stored that I use (and I have not been invited to any other high level private groups).

If Rennlist went away, I'd be one unhappy camper and hope that any great contributors that have left - come back here and stay here.

Too much good can come from us working together here on Rennlist - compared to fracturing out into a hundred sub-sets of non-searchable dead ends... :bowdown:

>

I am not always sure that this forum is managed in the best possible way. For example, they just deleted my thread on WTB 28.13 LSD on the grounds that I'm no longer a member. That thread had a long time ago migrated from wanted to buy thread to a general transmission thread, so I think it was another moderation decision that subtracted long-term value in net from the ultimate owners of the site.

Let me ask you this, before whining about it in this thread, did you reply back to the moderator who deleted the tread in question (it wasn't me for anyone wondering, I just saw it myself)?
If not, why not?

Moderators are just people, un-paid volunteers who roam the dark alley's of Rennlist and take care of violations as they are found. Your thread was titled "WTB" and you are no longer a paid member. Pretty cut and dry....on the surface....and a quick note to the deleting moderator in question could have made things more clear.

So, I took it upon myself to re-name your thread to something more appropriate and it's back open.

Nice and easy, see, we are not monsters just trying to ruin your day after-all. :cool:

Next time, just PM one of us.

I tried responding to the message and it got rejected.

Tuomo,

I'm a little surprised that you let your membership lapse. Take a few minutes and renew, and these noisy little challenges would magically go away. Just sayin... Almost informative 4700 posts from you at this point, and I daresay I enjoy all of them.

----

The forum moderators are listed in the header bar for the forum so you can just click on your favorite one to PM them. I have some limited moderator privs and can usually solve simple issues, if you want to PM me. I check in a couple times a day but don't camp out here 24/7/365. For issues with threads and posts that are still alive, use the "report post" button lower left in the post to bring something to the attention of all the moderators.

As Erik shares, moderators are enthusiast members just like you, folks who have other things going on like families and day jobs. My big duty is zapping posts and threads from love doctors and marriage assistants. Sometimes admin duty, like sticky for an event announcement. Once in a while a user gets a note from me about the for-sale and WTB restrictions on non-members. Long-time folks who might have forgotten to renew get a PM reminder, then if no action is taken we are forced to delete the thread. For someone who seriously wants to find or sell a 928 part bigger than a single used wheel nut here, the cost of membership is easily justified. I can't count past ten without taking my shoes off, and I can figure that out without an abacus. Computer science was a Godsend for me, since I only needed to count to 1. Hex was a massive challenge until I added letters to my first 110 toes!

Sorry, but I have to LOL (Laugh Out Loud) at the idea that the FB groups will replace this forum any time soon. FB is all about sharing pictures and quick thoughts, but most of the real meat is here. That doesnt mean things wont change, but FB is so far from Rennlist, it isn't even funny. Share your pics and daily updates on FB, but we all know you'll be back here for real info in keeping your 928 on the road...

Hi Dr Bob,

How does one go about purchasing the "Lifetime Membership" so one does not have to take the time re-up every year?

Thanks,

Dave

Dave - that is actually an honor that cannot be bought. It is a status that was conferred by the founder of Rennlist, John D. When you look at the folks that have that status, you will see a common thread. The best of the best - and character is at the top of the list:bowdown:

What Ed said, at least about the "can't be bought" part anyway.. I've recommended some of our stellar supporters for LRM status, and found that the program is pretty much history at this point. My LRM status came out of the blue thanks to Randy V and John D in the pre-IB era. Other forum operators offer a lifetime status with single payment. IMHO I'm not sure I can guarantee that I'll even remember enough to make one of those longer-term investments worthwhile.

If the renewal process is too tedious to endure every year, I think there's a multi-year option. I haven't looked in a while though. More memory issues. I can't remember half the stuff I've forgotten.

The facebook groups are fun and all but it gets annoying giving the same advice over and over again because there is no way to search for info.

So, like others, I inevitably post links to a RL thread pertaining to their question. It makes it so much easier to answer technical questions with a writeup done and edited years ago.

Facebook is good for quick questions like which spark plugs to use, but more technical stuff really requires the archival capabilities of a dedicated forum like Rennlist.

Otherwise you'll be answering that same question at least 10 times over.

Ed,

Interesting, I was thinking that there was a premium cost membership that indicated a long term commitment to the Porsche marquis and that the "premium" upfront fee would help support the Rennlist community as a whole.

Since a two year membership is $32($16/year) RL should just offer a 50 year (aka lifetime) membership for $500($10/year). I bet there would be a bunch of guys who either wanted the status or wanted to support the community and not have to remember to renew every year.

Excellent idea Nate! I'd go there in a heartbeat!

Well, to reiterate, a lifetime membership is an honor designation. It isn't about cost or convenience. Nate, your proposal would be like buying a Knighthood. It can be done on a one-off basis I suppose, but if anyone could do it who had the $ means, then it wouldn't be a special thing anymore.

That said, it could be that IB institutes some form of long term membership fee, but they should call it something else. I got no skin in this game, as I am not in the ranks of those worthy folks who are lifetime members. I'm just happy they exist, and I think they should remain at that elevated level.

A couple other forums I play in offer what they call a "premium membership", exactly as you describe except that the buy-in is less than 10x an annual membership cost. For that you get a pretty gold banner under your name with the "Premium Member" lettering in black script. Interesting that on those forums there's absolutely no benefit to paying for any membership vs. user-level, much less a premium. Those places make all their money on clicks and views for advertisers, while a decent adblocker handily cancels out whatever benefit a no-ads membership might bring. Following that thought, it looks like Google Chrome is going to revamp their adblocker add-in so it allows some $higher$ ads to pass through regardless of settings.

Back to the premium membership thought, there are some few who treat their paid membership as a license to harass and troll in the forums. How much more of that would we need to tolerate from someone who might perceive that as a lifetime privilege?

Not to mention said troll, crying foul when they get banned and purchased a "lifetime" membership.

Would need to come up with a "lifetime premium time-out" instead of a ban?

Yeah I didn't mean to suggest that the long term membership fee be akin to having a designated lifetime membership. Definitely if come to fruition, it should have a different, less prestigious, moniker.

As for the idea that it could give some trolls the feeling they have a right to be more trolly, well I don't know. First off how much of an epidemic is that? And me personally, I hate it when things are legislated to accommodate the few instead of the many. There are a lot of us that would love the opportunity to have one large payment and be done with having to renew every year or two. And I'd also be willing to bet that most of those people could care less if there was no additional benefit beyond that.

My status here dates back to 2002, could have sworn I had the lifetime status at one point. I thought it was offered to the first few paying members but judging from the responses here, I am experiencing some form of senility.

With that said, I guess I should be ashamed of my low post count given how long I have been here. :icon107:

I did not want privilege, knighthood, or to join the double secret society of hallowed heroes with secret handshakes and knowing winks.

I only wanted the convenience of not having to risk losing my posts if I take a long break or spend time renewing my membership every year and obviously, to support the funding of Rennlist. Strange to see this being viewed viewed as a "Character" issue or that "Lifetime Member" confers special status when one only seeks convenance.

Who was it that said "trying to understand some people is like trying to describe the color 9"?

:icon107:

Even if you never renew you don't loose your posts. You don't even loose your PM's. I've let mine lapse several times.

FWIW, I joined RL in May 2006 after lurking for a couple of years. By my own records, I renewed in 2008, 2012, and 2014. I have no recollection of having paid since then, nor have I ever lost member status. I just kind of assumed that if IB really wanted my $32 (which I'd happily pay), they'd let me know by turning off my account. Hasn't happened yet.


RL is far and away the best compendium of info on the 928 anywhere on the net, by a huge margin, thanks to the contributions of many members over nearly 20 years. I hope there's a good backup of the database somewhere!

And that's it!
I live in a small european country, Portugal, and this group is been priceless whether I need a big help or only some small info!
Thank you allhttps://rennlist.com/forums/graemlins/thumbup.gif

Likes? Fer chrisskakes....

LOL. You noticed that too...

EDIT: make sure to block javascript from *.facebook.* and you're all good.

I Liked that post.

Interesting. IB's like button isn't facebook's javascript. A good sign 'spose.

Same stuff John D was using on Reutterwerk so many years ago.

Wow! Double secret handshakes and now LIKES?

You gotta be kidding...

Wow, where the hell did the "likes" come from? On Reutterwerks, they were "thank you's"

Edit - I see I can't "Like" my own post:icon107:

Yup
I asked if / when this came to Renny it would also have an unlike button. Guess that wasn't a popular idea.

**in my best Jeremy Clarkson voice**
Stupid, just stupid.

They said if there would be an unlike button, docmirror would be drummed out of the place. Which - all things considered would not be much of a loss. :evilgrin:
Y'all please pardon if I don't participate in the "like" option. Not my thing, but enjoy!

You get one like from me for that post :p

I need one that says "!!!CHEERING!!!"

The ignore list takes care of chronic "unlikes" handily. :)

As you well know, I have LONG been a strong proponent of espousing folks put me on ignore. It's a great way to start the day!

I think my new life goal is to "like" every post from Doc.

Reading through this thread, it's nice to see I'm not the only one that doesn't do FB.