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S3 Intake Refesh Guidance Sought

 
Old 12-27-2018, 09:28 AM
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Ramp
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Default S3 Intake Refesh Guidance Sought

Happy Holidays. I'm kicking off the winter with an intake refresh on my S3 (86.5) with 42k miles. Thanks in advance for the assistance going through this process ľ I would not attempt this without this awesome forum. My goal is deferred maintenance and to end up with a perfectly running and reliable engine (and then consider the Porken Chips). I will do some cosmetic as I go and will definitely clean everything. I decided not to refinish the intake runners as they are in reasonably good condition. They will be degreased and cleaned.

Q1: I decided not to remove the cam covers as I see no evidence of leaking. Mistake ?
Q2: I decided not to remove the water bridge as no evidence of leaking. Mistake ? (I was going to do this but I didnĺt drain the coolant. How often do they leak and how often do you need to replace the thermostat ?)
Q3: The rubber intake hoses and other rubber Vac lines all appear in good condition. Consensus on clean and reuse vs replace ?
Q4: I am replacing the rubber fuel lines but is there a reason to replace the fuel dampers if there is no known problem ? Do they wear or age ?
Q5: The 7 way vac splitter and small black vac lines all seem fine and not brittle. Change them anyway ?



At start - runners are in reasonably good condition. Will be cleaned and de-greased but not refinished.

Younger Gen showing interest. Smaller fingers worked well on fuel rail bolts.

Fuel rails out

Rubber Vac lines appear good. Clean and reuse or replace ?

Replace rubber ? I'm replacing the TPS and going to dunk the TB for full cleaning.
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Old 12-27-2018, 09:57 AM
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Hi Ramp,
Two years ago I went in a little deeper than you appear to be doing on your upper refresh. I took the attitude that the car was 31 years old at the time and it was time to replace ALL the hoses and vacuum lines. I was constantly amazed at how many times the hoses looked decent from the outside, but when taken out, and then bent, how almost all of them were severely cracked on the inside. My advice, coming from my 1st hand experience at having recently done this, is to replace all hoses and vacuum lines while you're this deep into the project. And replace all the fuel pressure dampners.

I also installed a rebuilt MAF and the latest 4 hole Gen III fuel injectors. I believe these two items alone were responsible for most of the improved engine performance. Later I installed the PorKen chips. A very nice further improvement in performance from them. You will have to replace the fuel pressure regulator if you're going to upgrade to the Porken chips. So why not also do the fuel dampners as well.

On that thermostat. Has it ever been replaced with only 42K miles [jealous!] on the vehicle? How often has that coolant been replaced/flushed?? It's a relatively simple job to do. Why not do it now.
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Old 12-27-2018, 12:07 PM
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bureau13
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Not too long ago I did this same job on my S3. I too decided not to mess with the valve covers. My reasoning there was that if I decide I need to do that tomorrow, there's not a tremendous burden of rework to go in and do that as a stand-alone job, unlike the stuff under the intake runners. The same would apply to the fuel dampers, I think? I don't recall off-hand if they're fastened in such a way that more painful stuff needs to come off.

Water bridge and oil filler are different animals. I did them, but I was pretty sure my oil fill tube was leaking, and I wanted to put one of Greg Brown's baffles in there.There's always a risk that you introduce a leak, but at 30+ years, if all those gaskets are original, leaking can't be too far off, and going back in and pulling fuel rails, intakes, etc would be painful.
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Old 12-27-2018, 03:03 PM
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Thanks - I know I should do the thermostat and water bridge but I didn't drain the system and doing so now is a pain. If I drain the radiator, do you think enough will empty so that I can safely remove the water bridge without getting coolant flowing into the crank case from the open oil filler neck ?

Still on the fence for the fuel dampers - pricey. I would like to at least install the S4 regulator. 928S MN - do you know the part # for the S4 regulator (87 or 88 S4) and do you need to change the fuel lines at all ?

I also need to think about the injectors - Porken's site says clean and use stock so I was going to send them to Witchhunter but now thinking if I should install the newer versions - are they plug and play ?


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Old 12-27-2018, 06:18 PM
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bureau13
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The appropriate 4-hole injectors are plug and play, including working with the retaining clips, which are important for safety reasons. I have no idea if there is an actual noticeable difference however. I got them because my old ones were bad.

Not sure how much draining the radiator will do for the water bridge, etc but emptying via the block drains isn't so bad?
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Old 12-27-2018, 06:24 PM
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928S MN
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The liftbar Web page has the S4 FPR part number. http://liftbars.com/

The injectors I installed were plug and play. Make sure you get the correct sized O-rings.
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:38 AM
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If it was me and I was investing the time to take things apart,
I would do everything,
cam covers and intake powder coated,
make sure the intake tubes are P/Cd in the injector bores as well,
I have seen a couple that have not been and the injector seals are leaking,
new hoses and new throttle bearings,
all new seals on everything
New electrical parts, fuel lines, V belts,
P/S tank and hoses.
Frankly the car is old, its time to refresh it,
then you can drive for 12 years or more with minimum downtime for additional maintenance.

Is it a lot of work? YES YES YES !!!
but it will be done VS,
I just did a partial intake refresh and the engine wont run properly,
I think the cam cover gasket is leaking as I smell oil burning when I make a hard left turn.
Your choice.
Do it once do it right
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Old 12-28-2018, 12:42 AM
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When I did mine, which had fewer miles on it, I replaced all the hoses, did the water bridge and installed the Greg Brown oil baffle. My cam covers were tight and I decided against touching them. Everything came off without drama and went back on the same way.

I have the utmost respect for Mr. Merlin, but I have often pondered the wisdom of pulling the cam covers of an S3 - and encountering the nightmares than may ensue from the cam cover bolts used on them - to powder coat parts that are almost invisible when all is put back together.
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Old 12-28-2018, 09:09 AM
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All good views and the various experiences are the guidance I was looking for.

Mrmerlin - wholeheartedly agree with you but I have to have some reality check on my skill, $ and most importantly, limited time. But, I am going to replace all the rubber, electrical sensors, TPS and harness, fuel lines, etc. Haven't decided yet on the fuel dampers and the vac switch mounted to the x-bar or the vac diagram located near the coolant tank (not sure what these actually do)?

As to the throttle body - couple of Q's - should I crack it in 2 and replace the oring between the 2 halves ? Also, in another thread I found a reference to removing one spring to reduce the pressure needed at the pedal - is this a common mod ?

bureau13 - the reason I want to drain the coolant from the radiator and not from the block is to limit the mess. I won't be able to wash out the garage floor until spring. If I drain from the plug on the radiator, I can catch most of it. Just not sure if it will lower the level below the oil filler crank level - anyone know ?

Eplebnista - "cam covers of an S3 - and encountering the nightmares than may ensue from the cam cover bolts used on them - to powder coat parts that are almost invisible when all is put back together." This is where I'm leaning at the moment - I looked carefully and getting to those bolts may be a bi-ch - I used a mirror and I'm pretty sure I don't see any leakage.

928S MN - I looked at liftbars and they have this - 87 S4 FPR, 92811019802/Bosch 0280160262 - or 88 S4 FPR, 92811019804/Bosch 0280160297 (with hose adapter)
I'm assuming that if I go with an 87 it's plug and play but an 88 requires a different hose. I'll probably look for an 87 and get GB's fuel lines for plug and play. Also, why do they say that MAF screens are required ? Who would run without them in place ?

Below is a pic of progress - If I replace the vac lines, do I reuse the 7way splitter ?



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Old 12-28-2018, 09:52 AM
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beran earms
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Hey Ramp, keep up the great work. I will be following along on this one for sure. Good to see the "next gen" involved too!
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:02 AM
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For what it's worth, I don't recall draining from the block drains making a significant mess. Maybe a bit, since you have to reach up in there to remove the bolts, but if you leave the cap on up top until you've moved your drain pan over to catch it, it's pretty minimal. Then again, I wasn't in my garage, I was in the driveway, where it's maybe less critical to not spill anything.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:05 AM
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Good thread for the S3 crowd!
Man Randy, I had no idea the car has such low miles, great find.

My cam covers, in hindsight, did have a leak on the passengers front, and it took me a long time to realize it.
I have read the horror stories as well, but honestly it wasn't that bad -- or I've learned how to not strip out bolts since I started this whole escapade.
Having said that, I think you are fine to wait if there is no evidence of problems right now.
God, the real question for me are the head gaskets on these cars. Do you go by time or miles? Etc.

I would say, do as much as you want and come back to the rest next winter. Yea, I would replace as much rubber hose as you can budget for.
As an aside, you will get the minority of coolant out of the block if you drain it. Not hard or messy, and probably worth your time just to insure the drain bolts are not corroding or frozen.
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Old 12-28-2018, 10:31 AM
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beran earms
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I have used a kids turtle pool type thing to catch most if not all coolant on other vehicles, I would think one would squeeze into a 928 stance as well.

Not trying to talk you into anything extra.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:04 AM
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Hi Ramp,

I went with the 87 FPR and it was plug and play. I also ordered the simpler vacuum hose replacement kit from Roger. It re-routed some of the lines for a cleaner install IMHO.

Have no idea as to why Porken says to have the screen installed on the MAF. Scratched my head on that one just like you as to why anyone would not have them.

I did remove my valve covers specifically to inspect the cam shaft chain tensioner system. All was fine. But I did learn the hard way that those cam cover 2 piece bolts are thread locked into the heads. You need to apply heat in order to remove them without breakage. I then replaced them with the S4 single piece bolts.

Another thing I did was to replace the harmonic balancer with a new one from Greg Brown. I had read where he stated he is seeing more bearing problems that he is associating with the old brittle rubber harmonic balancers not doing their intended function. He theorized the not dampened harmonics were causing oil film issues on the main bearings. Again my thought process on 31 year old rubber/plastic parts all needing to be replaced.

Overall it was a very satisfying experience as both my Son and Son-in-Law helped out with the job. Just spending time with those two was worth it all by itself. Hope you're having the same kind of experience with your Son.
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Old 12-28-2018, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Crumpler View Post
Good thread for the S3 crowd!
Great to hear from you Crumpler ! Thanks for the help last year with the TB/WP and Oil line issues. All worked out well on that and have had no issues. I changed the coolant at that time so no frozen drain plugs - it's simply an issue of keeping the coolant off the floor since I installed a carpet under the lift and won't be able to wash it until spring. I'll try draining the rad and see how low the level is and then do the water bridge aspect of the intake refresh. Will also install the Greg Brown baffle. Decision made thanks to the forum consensus on this part of intake refresh.

Originally Posted by 928S MN View Post
Hi Ramp, I went with the 87 FPR and it was plug and play. I also ordered the simpler vacuum hose replacement kit from Roger. It re-routed some of the lines for a cleaner install IMHO.
Have no idea as to why Porken says to have the screen installed on the MAF. Scratched my head on that one just like you as to why anyone would not have them. But I did learn the hard way that those cam cover 2 piece bolts are thread locked into the heads. You need to apply heat in order to remove them without breakage. I then replaced them with the S4 single piece bolts.
I have an email out to GB to discuss/order fuel lines and the '87 regulator. I added Roger's vac kit to the list. My cam covers use the one piece bolts but for now still not going to mess with them. Maybe once I have everything else sorted and reinstalled (before the intake runners), I'll reconsider.

Injectors: I need to either send the OEM out to Witchhunter or decide to buy the new 4-hole injectors that are plug and play, including working with the retaining clips (no desire to modify anything). With all the threads, I'm unclear as to which would be the part to order - Other than possibly adding the S3 chips later, the engine will be stock. What model, brand and pound injectors are the direct plug and play ? Are there any other factors to think about ? Why do some people elect to have oem cleaned and reused if the new gen is plug/play and simply better ?

Plugs: The stock plugs are WR7DC. For the chips, Porken lists the WR5DC. Any issue using the 5DC plugs even if I didn't end up installing the S3 chips ?
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