Classic Porsche came to visit 928Srus
11-29-2018, 12:10 AM
#16
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Gone. On the Open Road
Posts: 16,328
Received 1,543 Likes
on
1,007 Posts
11-29-2018, 06:13 AM
#18
While OEMs generally make significant profits with after sale parts, managing stocks represents significant fixed costs and requires a long term vision which the current crop of bean counters in charge have chosen not to have. Product durability kills short term profits.
A couple of months ago I drove by the buildings where Porsche have all their stock for all their platforms and although they are in a more or less isolated but large area not too far from Stuttgart I believe it still costs them a pricely sum to maintain, even if they most likely own the ground now considering how long they have been there.
The golden years for us DIY owners, between the early to late 2000s when pretty much every spare was still available from new and the cars were cheap to buy are sadly over. I guess owners who have had an interest in the cars to apply their DIY aspirations may progressively move onto other cars once the price per mile will have reached a subjectively unacceptable level. As prices for the cars go up they attract a new bulk of mechanically-illiterate owners with investment in mind who may demand service history performed by Porsche dealers or at least reputable workshops, pulling down the values of the cars owned and maintained by DIYers. The inexorable search for profits always kills all the fun.
But anyway, thanks for keeping fighting to get parts.
Last edited by Thom; 11-29-2018 at 06:40 AM.
11-29-2018, 07:55 AM
#19
Any OEM will deliberately proceed with an under supply policy to encourage owners to move onto more recent cars in order to consume the stocks accumulated for these more recent cars, and the cycle will repeat itself until cars will have become full buy-then-scrap items that cannot or should not be repaired at all.
While OEMs generally make significant profits with after sale parts, managing stocks represents significant fixed costs and requires a long term vision which the current crop of bean counters in charge have chosen not to have. Product durability kills short term profits.
A couple of months ago I drove by the buildings where Porsche have all their stock for all their platforms and although they are in a more or less isolated but large area not too far from Stuttgart I believe it still costs them a pricely sum to maintain, even if they most likely own the ground now considering how long they have been there.
The golden years for us DIY owners, between the early to late 2000s when pretty much every spare was still available from new and the cars were cheap to buy are sadly over. I guess owners who have had an interest in the cars to apply their DIY aspirations may progressively move onto other cars once the price per mile will have reached a subjectively unacceptable level. As prices for the cars go up they attract a new bulk of mechanically-illiterate owners with investment in mind who may demand service history performed by Porsche dealers or at least reputable workshops, pulling down the values of the cars owned and maintained by DIYers. The inexorable search for profits always kills all the fun.
But anyway, thanks for keeping fighting to get parts.
While OEMs generally make significant profits with after sale parts, managing stocks represents significant fixed costs and requires a long term vision which the current crop of bean counters in charge have chosen not to have. Product durability kills short term profits.
A couple of months ago I drove by the buildings where Porsche have all their stock for all their platforms and although they are in a more or less isolated but large area not too far from Stuttgart I believe it still costs them a pricely sum to maintain, even if they most likely own the ground now considering how long they have been there.
The golden years for us DIY owners, between the early to late 2000s when pretty much every spare was still available from new and the cars were cheap to buy are sadly over. I guess owners who have had an interest in the cars to apply their DIY aspirations may progressively move onto other cars once the price per mile will have reached a subjectively unacceptable level. As prices for the cars go up they attract a new bulk of mechanically-illiterate owners with investment in mind who may demand service history performed by Porsche dealers or at least reputable workshops, pulling down the values of the cars owned and maintained by DIYers. The inexorable search for profits always kills all the fun.
But anyway, thanks for keeping fighting to get parts.
11-29-2018, 08:46 AM
#21
Drifting
11-29-2018, 10:35 AM
#22
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Porsche Classic was setup to make money. Surprise, it's a for profit company.
They might be the last European manufacture to the party, and frankly it's surprising how asleep at the wheel they were. Mercedes discovered a long time ago there was a booming market to supply parts for classic cars. You can quite literally get any part for any Mercedes ever made. Cheap? Not on your life, but it's not supposed to be. Need a crank for some untra-rare Mercedes engine? Fill out the form they'll make you one.
Ferrari joined the party long before Porsche too. Once the company that practically bragged about how little they cared for the classics, now they might be the leaders in this field. Their racing program supporting retired F1 cars is amazing.
Sorry, you are flat out wrong that Porsche is purposely building obsolescence into this program to steer people into newer cars. Classic cars serve a different purpose than new cars, Porsche (finally) gets this and thankfully they stopped pretending cars like the 928 & 944 don't exist.
This is an area the American manufactures were decades ahead of Europe. GM never lost sight of their heritage and always embraced it, especially with the Corvette.
Ferrari likes to brag about this statistic:
"Half the Ferrari owners own five or more cars and 65 percent own more than one Ferrari".
There are similar statistics for Porsche owners, and that is who Porsche is targeting with this program. They do not care about the person buying a clapped out 928 off the side of the road for $1,000 thinking he can get it running on the cheap.
This is LONG overdue and a very good thing for the future of the 928.
11-29-2018, 11:20 AM
#23
Did you even just read my previous post where I mentioned that OEMs make significant profit with their after sale business?
The only thing I care about is to be able to keep finding new spares at a reasonable price, and that would be by not spending something like $500 for something say like a stupid hatch release motor.
Now that they have decided to boast about their "transaxle heritage" for the 40th birthday of the 924 launch two years ago the price of almost anything related to an old Porsche increased for no apparent reason apart from that "Porsche Classic" hype thing while everybody was previously able to keep their cars on the road by just browsing through PET or asking for whichever part they needed at the desk of their local dealership, in times when we did not even care about what the factory thought or did not think about the 924/928/944.
If they want to brag about the "Porsche Classic" scheme they better just deliver the parts needed at a cost where owners will still be able to smile out of each drive instead of worrying about how much it may cost them if anything breaks down again - the quality of remade parts is generally absymal compared to new old stock as I have observed, even on parts sensitive to aging like rubber hoses.
Ferrari is a separate case as Ferrari owners do not drive their cars anywhere near as much as Porsche owners.
It's funny you mention the Corvette as a friend who just bought a C6 Z06 mentioned he won't keep it for long as GM policy is apparently to keep supplying parts for only just 5 years after the end of production while European car makers face a law where they have to deliver parts for 10 years after the last car rolled off the line - how about that for American car makers being decades ahead of European OEMs...!
The only thing I care about is to be able to keep finding new spares at a reasonable price, and that would be by not spending something like $500 for something say like a stupid hatch release motor.
Now that they have decided to boast about their "transaxle heritage" for the 40th birthday of the 924 launch two years ago the price of almost anything related to an old Porsche increased for no apparent reason apart from that "Porsche Classic" hype thing while everybody was previously able to keep their cars on the road by just browsing through PET or asking for whichever part they needed at the desk of their local dealership, in times when we did not even care about what the factory thought or did not think about the 924/928/944.
If they want to brag about the "Porsche Classic" scheme they better just deliver the parts needed at a cost where owners will still be able to smile out of each drive instead of worrying about how much it may cost them if anything breaks down again - the quality of remade parts is generally absymal compared to new old stock as I have observed, even on parts sensitive to aging like rubber hoses.
Ferrari is a separate case as Ferrari owners do not drive their cars anywhere near as much as Porsche owners.
It's funny you mention the Corvette as a friend who just bought a C6 Z06 mentioned he won't keep it for long as GM policy is apparently to keep supplying parts for only just 5 years after the end of production while European car makers face a law where they have to deliver parts for 10 years after the last car rolled off the line - how about that for American car makers being decades ahead of European OEMs...!
11-29-2018, 11:39 AM
#24
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
If they want to brag about the "Porsche Classic" scheme they better just deliver the parts needed at a cost where owners will still be able to smile out of each drive instead of worrying about how much it may cost them if anything breaks down again - the quality of remade parts is generally absymal compared to new old stock as I have observed, even on parts sensitive to aging like rubber hoses.
They are following the Mercedes and Ferrari playbook, which is working quite well and doesn't include caring about the people who cannot afford the new parts at whatever price point they deem necessary to make it worth their wild to reproduce.
Yea I get it, people who've been able to keep these cars running on a shoe string budget may be priced out of the market. Yes it sucks, but that's how it goes. Maintaining and owning vintage Corvette's is not affordable anymore either.
In some ways I wish this would have happened decades ago. You don't see nearly as many clapped out Ferrari's on front yards as 928's, why? There was never this myth they were going to be affordable to own. Even when 308's could be had in the teens, few people were ignorant enough to think that would be cheap to keep running.
It's funny you mention the Corvette as a friend who just bought a C6 Z06 mentioned he won't keep it for long as GM policy is apparently to keep supplying parts for only just 5 years after the end of production while European car makers face a law where they have to deliver parts for 10 years after the last car rolled off the line - how about that for American car makers being decades ahead of European OEMs...!
I still work for them off / on in the summer helping with their racing customers and shows.
11-29-2018, 11:54 AM
#25
So Thom, you are pissed that they are reproducing parts for cars again, and you can't get them at Rock Auto like you want? Who ever said Porsche was going to be an inexpensive car to own?
11-29-2018, 12:20 PM
#26
If the transaxle Porsches survived through the years when they wear cheap and had a bad image it's certainly thanks to the dedication of folks who have spent significant amounts buying new spares from Porsche to keep those once lame ducks on the road... and now some are suggesting that the factory should make further profit on their backs?
I hear more and more folks bragging about the value of their cars and adopt an elitist tone now that their cars are worth perhaps several times more what they may have paid for them. Those folks do not seem to remember where they come from.
The only thing I feel free to be pissed off with is that this "Porsche Classic" thing is in my opinion only a way to justify raising the prices for spares when there is no technical reason to do so.
Ten years ago I went to a local dealership to order parts that turned out to be NLA. I canceled my order but came back a few weeks later to place a new order as I really needed these parts. A new batch was eventually remade within 6 months and they turned out to cost the same as before they got NLA. I do not see it happening again as parts that were once "normal" will now be considered "Porsche classic". This is just marketing hype and people who condone that sort of practice probably need a reality check and some self esteem recalibration.
I hear more and more folks bragging about the value of their cars and adopt an elitist tone now that their cars are worth perhaps several times more what they may have paid for them. Those folks do not seem to remember where they come from.
The only thing I feel free to be pissed off with is that this "Porsche Classic" thing is in my opinion only a way to justify raising the prices for spares when there is no technical reason to do so.
Ten years ago I went to a local dealership to order parts that turned out to be NLA. I canceled my order but came back a few weeks later to place a new order as I really needed these parts. A new batch was eventually remade within 6 months and they turned out to cost the same as before they got NLA. I do not see it happening again as parts that were once "normal" will now be considered "Porsche classic". This is just marketing hype and people who condone that sort of practice probably need a reality check and some self esteem recalibration.
11-29-2018, 12:44 PM
#28
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Somewhere I have a repair order for a clutch job, every thing replaced, total work was over $3,500 and that was back in the mid 90's. This was a car my father paid $9,000 for a few years prior.
The labor rate at that shop was $50 an hour back then. Today that same shop is over $100 an hour (dealership is over $120).
Frankly you are out of touch with reality on car parts. Labor rates have double or tripled and you expect the parts to remain the same?
A friend of mine just replace the headlight on a newer Mercedes, it was $3,000 and people complain about paying $600 for NOS or nice used H5's......guess what the replacement ones from Porsche Classic will cost?
Would I like the Porsche factory supplied 928 parts to be the same as my Beetle? Well yea, who wouldn't? But that's simply not reality.
11-29-2018, 01:04 PM
#29
Considering how much I have spent and seeing how parts prices increase, even for NOS items, you may note that I follow reality actually quite closely.
Not even discussing on what "cheap" or "expensive" may translate into depending on how much one can afford, the reality is that parts prices keep going up while the quality keeps going down. This is what matters in the end, regardless of the after sale process, and an appeal of driving a car like a Porsche, or at least an older one.
Now let's see how things fare with 928Srus, and like with the Mercedes example I still agree that a costly part is better than no part at all.
Not even discussing on what "cheap" or "expensive" may translate into depending on how much one can afford, the reality is that parts prices keep going up while the quality keeps going down. This is what matters in the end, regardless of the after sale process, and an appeal of driving a car like a Porsche, or at least an older one.
Now let's see how things fare with 928Srus, and like with the Mercedes example I still agree that a costly part is better than no part at all.
11-29-2018, 01:17 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
Porsche profits are amongst the highest in the auto industry: In the first quarter of fiscal 2018, the sports car manufacturer delivered around 63,500 vehicles (+6%), while revenue rose by eight per cent to 5.9 billion euro. The operating result totaled 976 million euro (+1%) and the operating profit margin was 16.4 per cent. Porsche is on track to have four plus billion in profits this year!
In one quarter, Porsche builds more cars than the entire 18 year run of 928's (61,000 cars) yet they are willing to service our niche of classic cars. From my perspective it is great that Porsche Classic is reaching out to Roger and preparing to support the 928 community as our cars require maintenance and parts. Availability of parts is critical to our cars having any value at all when you think about it.
Roger is in a unique position to give feedback to Porsche regarding the most pressing needs for the continuing serviceability and restoration needs for our marquee. This is a great development and I'd give it three thumbs up but alas, I only have two hands.
In one quarter, Porsche builds more cars than the entire 18 year run of 928's (61,000 cars) yet they are willing to service our niche of classic cars. From my perspective it is great that Porsche Classic is reaching out to Roger and preparing to support the 928 community as our cars require maintenance and parts. Availability of parts is critical to our cars having any value at all when you think about it.
Roger is in a unique position to give feedback to Porsche regarding the most pressing needs for the continuing serviceability and restoration needs for our marquee. This is a great development and I'd give it three thumbs up but alas, I only have two hands.