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We are not trying to fuel 1000 HP. We need to fuel 1200 HP. 80 lb injectors wont make it, and 114 lb injectors are already installed.
At 0.5 BSFC, 8x80 lbs injectors will totally make it even at the rated pressure, simple arithmetic says the limit is at 1280 hp at 100% duty cycle and 1216 hp at 95% duty cycle.
And they will atomize better at higher rail pressure, so if you make slightly more power than that and/or your engine is slightly less efficient than that, running 80 lbs injectors, non-turd fuel pumps, and higher than spec rail pressure is the best option.
Carl -- Your signature line says "Builder of the most powerful Naturally Aspirated 928 engine, 602 HP, 510 lb ft Torque Nov 2017". How does that claim square with Mike Simard's engine making 640 hp at the wheels eight years earlier? You can use your driveline loss assumptions to convert that to engine power and torque, the car has a dog-leg racing transmission. I'm confused.
Maybe this is so off topic that it deserves it's own thread.
That's a damn good chart. You mentioned this to me before, but without a dyno chart I wasn't going to move on hearsay. I assume it was just gas and air and no power-adders, right?
I'd love to see a pic of the build. Congrats to Mike.
That's a damn good chart. You mentioned this to me before, but without a dyno chart I wasn't going to move on hearsay. I assume it was just gas and air and no power-adders, right?
I'd love to see a pic of the build. Congrats to Mike.
Back to our 1000 HP build: currently we are deciding on one of several solutions to solve the supply problem at the motor, and working with Fuel Safe to make it. My Fuel Cell is at its end-date, so I have to replace it anyway.
That's a damn good chart. You mentioned this to me before, but without a dyno chart I wasn't going to move on hearsay. I assume it was just gas and air and no power-adders, right?
I'd love to see a pic of the build. Congrats to Mike.
I have edited my signature.
Carl,
Was your build with ITB's or was it with your single throttle body and custom plenum design?
It probably is, but that's cutting it a little too fine. I want Mike Simard to have this moment. I'll build another 7.0 L motor someday and take another run at the record.
941rwhp/751rwtq (you all can pick whatever drive-train loss calculation that suites you from an automatic)
1100cc (104lb) injectors
Two Bosch 044 Pumps running parallel, activated in stages based on boost. With a Boost-a-pump increasing voltage to the pumps above 18psi
Max Fuel Pressure: 70psi
E85 which roughly needs 15% more "fuel" compared to a similar build with pump or racing gas.
Stock fuel rails except the connections were converted to -6 fittings
Fuel injector duty cycle 80-85%
Maybe it would behoove you to bring the car to Beyond Redline and have Luke go through the setup & tune. Maybe a new set of eyes on everything would benefit the project. His shop is only 100 miles away so you don't even have to pay to fly him in like so many other people do.
Maybe it would behoove you to bring the car to Beyond Redline and have Luke go through the setup & tune. Maybe a new set of eyes on everything would benefit the project. His shop is only 100 miles away so you don't even have to pay to fly him in like so many other people do.
Thank you for the thought, but we are not stumped or puzzled.. I sized this fuel system to support 1000 HP in roughly 2010 for Bonneville and it fed a 900 to 950HP motor reliably since then with no fueling issues. But now that we are probably going to end up north of 1100HP we have outgrown this fuel system and there is no surprise to us that the system needs to be upgraded. The pickups, the lines, the filters, the fittings, the whole thing. I am working with Brett at Aeromotive and Ben Rogers at Fuel Safe and am quite comfortable with their competence. The fuel cell shipped out today for service and upgrades. I am going to try to have the car at a track day at Road America on Oct 24th if I can. That's the plan, anyway!
I have run two Bosch 044 pumps in parallel before in 2008 at Pikes Peak. It was not a bad setup. I prefer a single-pump solution and I have not given up on that yet, Less ampere draw, smaller alternator, less parasitic loss, less weight. If I cannot get it done with one pump, we will certainly go to two. With gasoline's higher BTU content, we think we can do it on one pump. On ethanol, I see why Todd would use two pumps to get the necessary flow.
Last edited by Carl Fausett; 09-21-2018 at 05:12 PM.
No, I am not familiar with that build. Thanks for the link
FYI - the last time Todd and I were at your shop we were discussing this motor. I'm sure Todd mentioned Simard by name since he was regularly talking to him when Mike was more active on the forums.
I'm sure it just slipped your mind though.
Originally Posted by Carl Fausett
Thank you for the thought, but we are not stumped or puzzled.
My mistake, reading this thread it looked like you were still working through a solution. I know Todd and I have suggested Luke to you before, considering him and his shop have built more than a few cars in this power level (some greatly exceeding even with far less displacement).
He's very familiar with the 928 (Tim Murphy used him to write the Murf928 Supercharger maps), and he is continually helping Todd tune and further refine his car.....and he's less than 100 miles away...just seems like an awfully good resource worth pursuing.
Since you have it all under control I guess it wasn't worth suggesting.
09-17-2018, 05:14 PM
