soontobered84

Not disputing, but I've never heard this from anybody before.

I was present at the dyno session post-DR's blackbird when Roger was developing his similar EIS and this was never an issue.

Matter of fact, there was a straight up 10hp gain across the board with the airbox removed and the EIS added. It was decided to downplay the hp gain until more testing occurred(which never happened), but it was there nonetheless and I saw it.

Speedtoys

The EIS. I still think it looks great...I have most of the bits somewhere...

Speedtoys

I didnt say it didnt make HP.

Im noting what I saw in MAF reading variability that if you knew it was there, you could note that it was there.

And that once I added a flow straightening honeycomb, it helped.

Its not a new topic: (Here is one, that was after a previous set of them elsewhere)
https://rennlist.com/forums/showpost...9&postcount=18

david rosario

im sure both have valid points, nevertheless im still looking for a dual intake system, for my current mod upgrades

DR

Thanks Jeff, I don't know what the inside of the EIS looks like at the internal "y", but assuming it was the unmodified Ebay pre-made Y fittings, this could certainly cause the symptoms you mentioned.

The Blackbirds have some "trickery" inside the Y sections because I custom made those Y sections by hand myself. We never had any mention of drive-ability issues from anyone, it was always quite the opposite. Because of the improved drive-ability feedback we received and experienced over a year of testing, we never had to chase an issue like you did.

Also if you look really closely at David H.s Gen 3 Blackbird you will see there is a lot more going on there than a rubber sleeve clamped on the MAF. My connections to the MAF were mechanical with a custom made billet base welded to the Y" for a perfect transitions that will never move around like the clamp-on version. Also because of my custom made Ys it sits much lower and does not have the hit the hood issues that also plagued the EIS.

Note: the Custom welded MAF fitting with Twist Loc ***** to mount it to the MAF Securely along with rigid mounts at original airbox mounts...



EIS - Off the shelf Aluminum Y fitting mounted with Rubber sleeve and worm clamp


Making my own custom Y fitting allowed me to lower the Blackbird to eliminate hood clearance issues. This is not possible with an off the shelf Y fitting, I know I tried many different ways..


This just shows what is happening on the outside and when people try to copy a product from pictures, it is kind of hard to see the real details....or the insides. LOL This doesn't even touch on the filter and housing differences, which are huge.

For David Rosario: Since you weren't around, here are a few threads that will get you caught up...

October 2005:
I announce the Twin Air Filter System is in developement, 1.5 YEARS of Development begins testing different versions and mods on the Dyno.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ml#post2487937

During development I design completely new air filters just for the Blackbird, similar to the custom original one I designed for the Twin Screw system. Both of these filter designs are my original designs with their own part numbers from the manufacturer. The manufacturer I worked with on these is not a small fish and I was lucky to know the owner, and they treated me great.:-)

June 2007:
I publicly announce, present and install the Blackbird P1 at SITM 2007
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ml#post4251567

Here are some the feedback threads over the next few months.

July 2007:
First independent Blackbird Dyno Tests Discussed.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...yno-chart.html

December 2007: Review from the Late Rob Rosito on his Stroker.
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...e-lookout.html

January 2009:
Heck even Greg Brown was still impressed 2 years later..
Of note Greg later purchased some of my filter systems for his intake development and I think eventually landed on Andy's Stroker??

With feedback and more tweeks I settle on the final production version, it will be a one-piece roto-molded factory style part with twist lock filter covers (billet/clear versions optional)
The full production mock-up was sent to manufacturer for 3D scanning and to begin creating the roto-molds.
Then I got sicker and coming up with the 10 grand to proceed, well it didn't happen...and then with all of this was going on....

Febuary 2010:
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...er-system.html
This guy wants to build a "Blackbird" for himself, heck I even help him in the thread. I have never had a problem with a 928er copying my designs and building one for themselves, I thought it was kind of cool...but as you will see in that thread by the end it had turned into a cheap copy of MY PRODUCT that is now for sale??? WTF????

Then, April 2010:
EIS announcement thread..
https://rennlist.com/forums/928-foru...ke-system.html

So that catches you up directly at least from my perspective, I'll let you figure out the rest.

Cheers to you both,

Dave

david rosario

i have no doubt on the product, thinking what options i have to get my shark back on the road

DR

You do know it can get back on the road with a stock aribox, right??? LOL

Cheers,

Dave

david rosario

of course will have to go that route if i cant find this product, bout 6 -8 weeks away to finish , so im trying to wait it out as much as i can

BauerR

What was the retail for this?
Is there a real demand for it? If there is, I can replicate it but would need at least 10 buyers

david rosario

well im #1, 9 more to go

SeanR

The prototype EIS that Dave has pictured (3 made total) has the rubber sleeve clamped to the MAF and the Y piece. The Y piece was a ZO6 part that had the proper merge internally. The production EIS was fitted to the MAF with an o-ring, got pretty expensive after the vette company figure out Roger was doing these for Porsches and double the price, then to modify it to fit the MAF properly added to the cost. Got to the point it wasn't worth the time to produce at the same price point after about 100 of them shipped out. Wish we still had them to buy but can't talk him in to it. I don't remember any of our cars having idle issues with the EIS, but those that did fixed it with the honeycomb I guess. The only really special part of the kit is the Y and the intake tubes at the beginning, most everything else is off the shelf stuff, hence the reason the kit was so inexpensive.

I still have mine and it makes some great wall art, if I ever go back to normally aspirated I'll put it back on the car.

As to why the EIS came out, Jim M here got tired of waiting 3 years for the blackbird and came up with all of it on his own and gave one to me and Roger. We liked it so it went in to production.

Rogers


My wall art


Customers

soontobered84

Sean, I knew you were using yours as wall art, so I didn't mention that you had one not on a car in this thread. It just wasn't my place to do so.

SeanR

aint selling it either. Had offers up to $700.00 for it and still won't sell.

DR

Darn, I forgot David's GTS moved to Texas, glad you guys finally got caught up..at least with that design!! LOL

OH WAIT, maybe not...
How in the heck did "Jim" manage to get your later system EVEN HIGHER in the back. I can see scratch marks on the hood from it, I recognize those from my own mistakes, LOL




This gets funnier and funnier.


So impatience is now an excuse for copying someone's design and profiting from it. It is a strange world we live it, so be it.

Dave

ROG100

With the "Blackbird" not be available any more, and with tons of customers asking me every day for an alternative, market pressure won out - after all that is what I am business for.
Had the Blackbird been available I would never have made the EIS.
We started from a clean sheet of paper and with the help and design from Jim and another Rennlister (Mark? who designed the basic principle using as many stock parts as possible) we came up with the EIS.
The stock Corvette Y tube used in the pre-production units was not good at all - two reasons 1) the use of the rubber connector to the MAF 2) it has a 1" hole in the top that we had to plug.
So we took my GTS to a local tuning shop here in DFW and developed the Y pipe. We did flow tests on and off the car to come up with a Y that offered as smooth a flow as possible and also incorporated a welded termination to push onto the MAF and seal with O rings.
The design was for a cosmetic addition to the car and not an increase in performance/horsepower - unlike the "Blackbird". I always told customers that they should buy it for bling and not for any power increase.
Under dyno testing, on different cars, we saw small improvements in HP, Not enough to state an improvement I could guarantee.
Many customers reported "seat of the pants" increases and statements like "better throttle response".

The purchasing logistics of dealing with Spectre in CA drove me crazy. They wanted to increase prices every other month, waiting months for production of their parts out of Asian, eventually drove me nuts to the extent it was effecting our regular business.
We sold over 200 units before I gave up on it. That was at least 5 or 6 years ago. I still get asked for the EIS at least twice a week. IIRC the last selling price was circa $750 which hardly covered material and overheads. I was not making money on the manufacture and assembly so I stopped.

I would be happy to share the detailed BOM with anyone wanting to try and continue the manufacture. The company making the Y pipe is here in DFW and they may make more for you. Consider tooling and minimum order quantities before pushing ahead.
Spectre have been bought out by K&N and they are really hard to deal with if you only have small volume requirements.

DR if you could resurrect the "Blackbird", which I am sure was a much better and well thought out product, you could sell tons of them.