Head Gasket RnR Fair Price at an Indie Shop?
08-02-2018, 05:42 PM
#1
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Head Gasket RnR Fair Price at an Indie Shop?
What do you guys think a fair price at an independent shop would be for both head gaskets to be replaced? TB and WP also included. Thanks. S3 928. Thanks.
08-02-2018, 07:20 PM
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S3's are the toughest of all the 928 engines to work on and are not the engine to "learn" on.
Hopefully they have done many of these and know that.
__________________
greg brown
714 879 9072
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Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
08-02-2018, 08:31 PM
#4
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Sounds like like worst case is the cost of another S3. Thanks for the info.
Engine has to come out of the car. If the head gaskets are leaking, they most likely need to be welded and re-surfaced. The head studs will be rusted and will need to be replaced. They should have a "clean-up" valve job and stem seals replaced, while the heads are at the machine shop. 10K minimum. An early S3 that hasn't had the tensioner updated and the valve cover hardware updated will need those pieces, for sure. And if the timing gears are worn out and they use a factory waterpump (they should), it will tear up 15K.
S3's are the toughest of all the 928 engines to work on and are not the engine to "learn" on.
Hopefully they have done many of these and know that.
S3's are the toughest of all the 928 engines to work on and are not the engine to "learn" on.
Hopefully they have done many of these and know that.
08-02-2018, 10:05 PM
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08-03-2018, 12:17 AM
#8
Has the engine mixed fluids or failed a leak down? Just curious as to why the gasket job is needed.
Greg is spot on as this is a major rabbit hole to head down. So many WYAIT’s.
Greg is spot on as this is a major rabbit hole to head down. So many WYAIT’s.
08-03-2018, 12:40 AM
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08-03-2018, 04:07 AM
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And for many of those years, the cost of rebuilding a Porsche engine exceeded the value of the car it was installed in. 356"s, 911"s, 914's, 924's, 944's, 928"s....almost every model "suffered" from this "syndrome" and a huge percentage of those engines ended up being "redone" several times...at low mileage into that "rebuild".
The thing I emphasize, on this Forum, is to make sure that you find someone very qualified and pay to have it done right, the first time.
way over 50% of the work we do is redoing work that has already been done...once or twice before.
And paying for it to be done correctly the second time really sucks.
The best advice I can give you:
You need to ask questions...and if this shop hasn't done a boatload of these engines....run.
And if they come up with a price that is logically too low....run.
Lots of shops will "lowball" you to get the job in...and then double or triple the price. Ask for a "worst case" price and get it in writing.
It should cost ~2K in labor to take the engine in and out, replace the pieces that are worn out, and clean the engine compartment.
It should cost ~3k in labor to take the engine down to the block and re-assemble it. More if they have to do things like change the head studs in the block (likely.)
The rest will be sublet labor to freshen the heads (~$1200), sublet labor to powder coat the intake and valve covers (~$750 for an S3 engine...figuring in $250 to clean the manifolds when they are done.)
The rest should be parts....5K minimum....up to 10K, depending on stuff: tensioners, cams, valve cover hardware, timing gears, oil pump gear, water pump, tensioner, fuel injection parts, etc., etc., etc.
Don't skimp. Do it right once and drive it for another 100,000+ troublefree miles.
Hope this helps!
08-03-2018, 09:44 AM
#12
About 7 years ago we had a local guy who had an 86.5 who needed a belt job done and balked when I gave him the range of cost to have it done by me. He thought it was outrageous and said he had quotes for $800.00 from other local shops and ended up trying to do it himself. Didn’t see him for a good 3 years at our regular breakfasts and he showed up one day and came up, said he was embarrassed to come because he did his how belt job and it ended up failing, crashing the valves. He then asked what it would cost to have me fix that. I quoted him $10k would be about the minimum and explained why. He coughed and said he thought it would only cost him $3-$4k. The car is still sitting in his garage which is a shame. It’s a beautiful dove blue 5 speed car that is in great condition.
Gregs 100% correct in what he’s saying. Sure you can hack your way though it, or have someone who has no clue what they are doing do it on the cheap. It took me 4 different machinists to find one I felt was good enough to do the heads on these cars and that’s in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Can’t imagine what it would be like in the smaller cities and towns.
Gregs 100% correct in what he’s saying. Sure you can hack your way though it, or have someone who has no clue what they are doing do it on the cheap. It took me 4 different machinists to find one I felt was good enough to do the heads on these cars and that’s in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Can’t imagine what it would be like in the smaller cities and towns.
08-03-2018, 01:45 PM
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About 7 years ago we had a local guy who had an 86.5 who needed a belt job done and balked when I gave him the range of cost to have it done by me. He thought it was outrageous and said he had quotes for $800.00 from other local shops and ended up trying to do it himself. Didn’t see him for a good 3 years at our regular breakfasts and he showed up one day and came up, said he was embarrassed to come because he did his how belt job and it ended up failing, crashing the valves. He then asked what it would cost to have me fix that. I quoted him $10k would be about the minimum and explained why. He coughed and said he thought it would only cost him $3-$4k. The car is still sitting in his garage which is a shame. It’s a beautiful dove blue 5 speed car that is in great condition.
Gregs 100% correct in what he’s saying. Sure you can hack your way though it, or have someone who has no clue what they are doing do it on the cheap. It took me 4 different machinists to find one I felt was good enough to do the heads on these cars and that’s in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Can’t imagine what it would be like in the smaller cities and towns.
Gregs 100% correct in what he’s saying. Sure you can hack your way though it, or have someone who has no clue what they are doing do it on the cheap. It took me 4 different machinists to find one I felt was good enough to do the heads on these cars and that’s in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Can’t imagine what it would be like in the smaller cities and towns.
Sent them over to my machinist to check, to make sure they were correct. The decks were cut crooked in both planes and the guides were shot. My first instinct was to throw them away, but they were GT heads....
Well, we fixed the deck problem and redid the valve job. There were brass plugs in the oil galleys, but they "looked" adequate enough. I installed them in the rebuilt engine and started it up. Four of the twelve galley plugs poured oil. Turns out that the original machine shop drilled the oil galley plug area to 31/64 and hammered in pieces of round brass stock to use for plugs.
I'm still trying to fix the heads!
I'm currently "redoing" 2 engines that were ruined from beads/sand left in the intake systems from powder coating....and another engine is in transit for the same problem.
The costs of fixing this stuff is staggering!
08-03-2018, 02:37 PM
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On the subject of heads, how much welding does your $1200 figure assume? Or in other words, is $1200 adequate given the p1$$-poor heads that I/you/we-all have been pulling off lately?
08-03-2018, 02:54 PM
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My Head Guy sorta apologized - more explained - for charging me for the Porsche parts for all the plugs. But, he said nothing else works reliably on the 928/9*4 heads.
On the subject of heads, how much welding does your $1200 figure assume? Or in other words, is $1200 adequate given the p1$$-poor heads that I/you/we-all have been pulling off lately?
Cost depends totally on the amount of welding. I've certainly seen heads that cost more. I've also seen heads that are so far gone that they just need to be thrown in the trash.