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Element: New type of fire extinguisher - must have in every car

 
Old 12-19-2018, 01:23 PM
  #46  
GregBBRD

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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr View Post
I doubt anyone is going to argue against halon (I should know better than to say such things around here......)

But there are other test vids of these worth checking out.

https://youtu.be/9JySQf0U_mk
Impressive video on initial inspection. There's no question about their gas estinguishing flame....I'm not questioning that.

However, the person putting the flame out is doing that from the base of the flame....a couple of inches away. Which makes me instantly wonder: "Why did they put a stand pipe 6' in the air? Wouldn't it be more realistic to have the flame coming right off the ground and then put out that huge flame from the top....like what would need to be done in a "real" fire.

Regardless, I don't want to ever be that close to a real fire....and I'm really sure I'm never going to get that close to the base of the flame...from underneath the flame.

I'm not questioning their gas. Obviously works quite well. I just want to see a "real life" demo.

Show me a fire like Van had...and put that out.




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Old 12-19-2018, 01:39 PM
  #47  
Rob Edwards
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I bought a pair of those Element stick extinguishers. Will bring one by, we can set something on fire and see how it does.
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Old 12-19-2018, 01:49 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by GregBBRD View Post
Impressive video on initial inspection. There's no question about their gas estinguishing flame....I'm not questioning that.

However, the person putting the flame out is doing that from the base of the flame....a couple of inches away. Which makes me instantly wonder: "Why did they put a stand pipe 6' in the air? Wouldn't it be more realistic to have the flame coming right off the ground and then put out that huge flame from the top....like what would need to be done in a "real" fire.

Regardless, I don't want to ever be that close to a real fire....and I'm really sure I'm never going to get that close to the base of the flame...from underneath the flame.

I'm not questioning their gas. Obviously works quite well. I just want to see a "real life" demo.

Show me a fire like Van had...and put that out.
I would too, there are some videos involving car fires but those are a bit to "setup" and not real world.

As you know, time is of the essence when dealing with fire. If you don't get to an 87+ engine fire quick enough & the intake manifold catches on fire, all bets are off unless you have the proper Class D chemical extinguisher. I have no idea how common that is with 928 fires, I've only see one 928 engine where we had to clean melted magnesium out of the intake runners.
I have burned chunks of magnesium in bonfires (VW transmission cases to be exact), it only takes 880F to ignite it.

In a perfect world I would have a halon bottle bolted to the seat or wherever and a couple of these in each door pocket.

Using these I've imagined lighting one off and tossing it under the engine to hopefully engulf the fire with the hood closed in that cloud of gas you see in the videos. No idea how realistic that scenario is.

I had a good conversation with someone at the company before ordering them. He did warn these can be rather useless in very windy conditions as the gas gets blown around, but he said Halon is effected a similar way. The topic came up when I mentioned having these on hand for my big *** bonfire parties. He said in large open fires like that, especially if it's windy, you need chemical extinguisher or a ton of water. Which is why fireman don't show up with a tanker truck filled with halon.

I have friends on the local volunteer fire department. I'm going to see if they will consider the idea of testing a couple of these when they do training with car fires.
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Old 12-19-2018, 02:47 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr View Post
I would too, there are some videos involving car fires but those are a bit to "setup" and not real world.

I have friends on the local volunteer fire department. I'm going to see if they will consider the idea of testing a couple of these when they do training with car fires.
That would be great to get the feedback.
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Old 12-19-2018, 02:49 PM
  #50  
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i ordered 2 after seeing the original thread...took about 3 weeks to get them. one in the driver side arm rest.. and one on the wall by the tool bench. cant hurt.
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Old 12-19-2018, 04:22 PM
  #51  
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Please take a video of this!

Originally Posted by Rob Edwards View Post
I bought a pair of those Element stick extinguishers. Will bring one by, we can set something on fire and see how it does.
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Old 12-19-2018, 05:41 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Hacker-Pschorr View Post
I would too, there are some videos involving car fires but those are a bit to "setup" and not real world.

As you know, time is of the essence when dealing with fire. If you don't get to an 87+ engine fire quick enough & the intake manifold catches on fire, all bets are off unless you have the proper Class D chemical extinguisher. I have no idea how common that is with 928 fires, I've only see one 928 engine where we had to clean melted magnesium out of the intake runners.
I have burned chunks of magnesium in bonfires (VW transmission cases to be exact), it only takes 880F to ignite it.

In a perfect world I would have a halon bottle bolted to the seat or wherever and a couple of these in each door pocket.

Using these I've imagined lighting one off and tossing it under the engine to hopefully engulf the fire with the hood closed in that cloud of gas you see in the videos. No idea how realistic that scenario is.

I had a good conversation with someone at the company before ordering them. He did warn these can be rather useless in very windy conditions as the gas gets blown around, but he said Halon is effected a similar way. The topic came up when I mentioned having these on hand for my big *** bonfire parties. He said in large open fires like that, especially if it's windy, you need chemical extinguisher or a ton of water. Which is why fireman don't show up with a tanker truck filled with halon.

I have friends on the local volunteer fire department. I'm going to see if they will consider the idea of testing a couple of these when they do training with car fires.
I don't think Halon works very well on a paper/wood fire and as I recall, gets low ratings for this kind of fire.

But for what we are dealing with, the amount of Halon needed to put out a fire is tiny.

When I was younger and dumber (people would argue that is impossible), I was welding up a broken clutch cable tube in a 914 (common failure.) This required removing the seats, the roof, part of the interior, the gearshift mechanism, etc. A "flap" needed to be cut in the "tunnel" to gain access to the tube and gussets fabricated to be welded to the floor and sides of the tunnel to secure the clutch cable tube.
Long story short, there are plastic fuel lines also in that tunnel that go from the tank to the engine in the rear of a 914. And I managed to cut one of those tubes right in half, with my torch. Full tank of fuel....literally gallons of fuel feeding a fire through a free flowing 8mm gravity fed line.

Keep in mind that I'm literally laying in the car, with my stomach on the doors sills and my toes on the ground, when this happens. My entire upper body is laying on the floorpan, with my head directly over this three inch "flap" I've cut ( sawed) to gain acess to the area that needed to be welded.

I was able to "extract" myself from the instant inferno....with only minor parts, like my hair, eyebrows, arms, on fire.

I "put" myself out with a nearby air hose and ran to the nearest estinguisher....a big Halon unit...probably 20 lbs. Couldn't get it off the wall for several seconds, until I figured out that it needed to be lifted....not just pulled.

Ran back to the car, which is now a towering inferno. Gallons of raw fuel in the tunnel, flowing out onto the floor pan. Fuel running out of holes in the floorpan...fire under the car, too.

The flames 6' over the top of the car. Another 20 seconds and my entire shop would have been on fire!

One squirt......literally one squirt....the fire was out. Out!!! I looked under the car at the growing "lake" of fuel....and there was this surrealistic "stream" of Halon "fog" flowing out of the holes in the floorpan....along with raw fuel.

The amount of Halon I used didn't even show on the gauge!

I've got to tell you people....this "Element" fire estinguisher is going to have to perform as good as, or better, than that Halon, for me to take my Halon estinguishers out of my cars and shop!



​​​​​​
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Old 12-19-2018, 05:54 PM
  #53  
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Seems Halon extinguisher is preferred , what is everybody using for in car?
I may also consider Element stick extinguishers
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Old 12-20-2018, 09:33 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by GregBBRD View Post
I don't think Halon works very well on a paper/wood fire and as I recall, gets low ratings for this kind of fire.

But for what we are dealing with, the amount of Halon needed to put out a fire is tiny.

When I was younger and dumber (people would argue that is impossible), I was welding up a broken clutch cable tube in a 914 (common failure.) This required removing the seats, the roof, part of the interior, the gearshift mechanism, etc. A "flap" needed to be cut in the "tunnel" to gain access to the tube and gussets fabricated to be welded to the floor and sides of the tunnel to secure the clutch cable tube.
Long story short, there are plastic fuel lines also in that tunnel that go from the tank to the engine in the rear of a 914. And I managed to cut one of those tubes right in half, with my torch. Full tank of fuel....literally gallons of fuel feeding a fire through a free flowing 8mm gravity fed line.

Keep in mind that I'm literally laying in the car, with my stomach on the doors sills and my toes on the ground, when this happens. My entire upper body is laying on the floorpan, with my head directly over this three inch "flap" I've cut ( sawed) to gain acess to the area that needed to be welded.

I was able to "extract" myself from the instant inferno....with only minor parts, like my hair, eyebrows, arms, on fire.

I "put" myself out with a nearby air hose and ran to the nearest estinguisher....a big Halon unit...probably 20 lbs. Couldn't get it off the wall for several seconds, until I figured out that it needed to be lifted....not just pulled.

Ran back to the car, which is now a towering inferno. Gallons of raw fuel in the tunnel, flowing out onto the floor pan. Fuel running out of holes in the floorpan...fire under the car, too.

The flames 6' over the top of the car. Another 20 seconds and my entire shop would have been on fire!

One squirt......literally one squirt....the fire was out. Out!!! I looked under the car at the growing "lake" of fuel....and there was this surrealistic "stream" of Halon "fog" flowing out of the holes in the floorpan....along with raw fuel.

The amount of Halon I used didn't even show on the gauge!

I've got to tell you people....this "Element" fire estinguisher is going to have to perform as good as, or better, than that Halon, for me to take my Halon estinguishers out of my cars and shop!



​​​​​​
Fantastically well told story, Greg. Glad you are OK. Makes me glad I have Halon.
Thanks,
Dave
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Old 12-20-2018, 10:05 PM
  #55  
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Halon eats O2. We use it to extinguish cargo and engine fires on airline aircraft. It’s bad news for the person who checks their animal to the cargo hold if we have to blow a bottle due to a cargo fire warning. If the fire doesn’t kill them (or if it’s a false alarm), the halon will.
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