Watching my TB job go farther south..
05-27-2018, 04:26 PM
#17
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Thread Starter
I know you trust this shop and i'm sure their patience is thin after the loctite mess but if they're not willing to use the proper tool to time the cams, have them put a timing belt on, get it close to the marks and get it out of there. It'll run acceptably if not optimally, and you can 32V'r it on your own time at your own pace later.
This is the end story I m hoping for.
05-27-2018, 09:58 PM
#18
Burning Brakes
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If it's any consolation... the few laps you took me on at Thunderhill in your RX8 continues to inspire my oldest, proud owner of an '05, having her engine rebuilt as we speak. It made it 90k miles, front rotor at 30% compression, rear at 70. I've convinced her the rebuild is worth it... this is the car that scared me. I've gone 180 on a motorcycle, and those laps at T-Hill were sobering. lolz Thanks for that.
Good luck with your S4. Let me know if I can help.
Good luck with your S4. Let me know if I can help.
Last edited by Mike LaBranche; 05-27-2018 at 10:18 PM.
05-28-2018, 09:28 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
05-28-2018, 12:38 PM
#20
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superdamper
If it takes a day to remove, it is not an advantage over stock. There must have been an installation issue on the superdamper?? As in not installed properly??
05-28-2018, 01:08 PM
#21
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As to why Jeff had such an issue getting his removed I know not but it sounds as though the original install used a thread locker that was to strong for the bolts holding it to the hub. Hopefully we will get some insight as to what happened given such is on my list of "potential projects" in the not too distant future.
05-28-2018, 04:04 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Just looked up the ATI installation instructions out of interest and spotted this:
"Be sure to use Blue Loctite 242 and the proper Torx-40 Plus Bit in most cases. T40 PLUS is not a standard Torx bit. Using a standard bit will ruin the head of the bolt and make it nearly impossible to ever get the bolts out."
No idea if it is relevant to what happened at the workshop but [presumably?] should be eliminated from the root cause investigation
"Be sure to use Blue Loctite 242 and the proper Torx-40 Plus Bit in most cases. T40 PLUS is not a standard Torx bit. Using a standard bit will ruin the head of the bolt and make it nearly impossible to ever get the bolts out."
No idea if it is relevant to what happened at the workshop but [presumably?] should be eliminated from the root cause investigation
05-28-2018, 04:59 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
One can insert the bit partially with a standard Torx bit but apparently not to full torque as that would round it. Try removing a bolt that is loctited with a standard Torx bit and it will trash the bolt or so it says- sounds kind of like what happened?
Perhaps you can check with your shop whether they used the Torx plus style of bit that ATI specify.
Perhaps you can check with your shop whether they used the Torx plus style of bit that ATI specify.
05-28-2018, 05:07 PM
#25
Ya..well...I would say if they were doing it wrong, they would have stripped out the bolt heads with the allen tool. But breaking _3_ snapon 3/8 socket heads, I cant fault the shop for trying. They spoke with GB, and I doubt that heating with a torch on the superdamper was an option.
05-29-2018, 08:59 PM
#26
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Sometimes I use blue (and only blue) Locktite, for this job, and sometimes not....just depends on my mood, at the time.
The guy that had to drill the heads off could answer this better than I can...if the "left over piece" unthreaded by fingertip when the heads were drilled off, they didn't have any Locktite on them.
Countersunk internal allen screws are notoriously troublesome to get out. The surface contact area of these pieces is extremely high and they are always tough to get out, without stripping the allen. My father taught me to always "strike" the head of these pieces (hard) before attempting to loosen them....because once you've damaged the internal allen, it's all over. Hitting the head loosens the surface tension and makes them loosen a higher percentage of the time. The mechanic working on this car called me, after he had already damaged the allens....so I had very little to offer him.
I'm now supplying all the dampers with a Torx bit. These are a bit better for loosening, but the hardware also need to be "whacked" pretty hard before attempting to remove them.
I offered to send the shop a new set of these...haven't heard anything back.
And then there's the "Snap-off" allen socket problem. For as good as they claim their tools to be, their Allen tools and Torx tools absolutely suck, in my humble opinion. Like everyone else, I've got several sets of these things, from "Snap-off". They pretty much just sit in my box and gather dust. I won't even attempt to get the screws for the cam bridges out with one of their tools....might as well order 1/2 of the hardware, before one starts the job. Stahlwille or Hazet....allens and Torx bits....they will last forever.....and get the hardware loose.
The guy that had to drill the heads off could answer this better than I can...if the "left over piece" unthreaded by fingertip when the heads were drilled off, they didn't have any Locktite on them.
Countersunk internal allen screws are notoriously troublesome to get out. The surface contact area of these pieces is extremely high and they are always tough to get out, without stripping the allen. My father taught me to always "strike" the head of these pieces (hard) before attempting to loosen them....because once you've damaged the internal allen, it's all over. Hitting the head loosens the surface tension and makes them loosen a higher percentage of the time. The mechanic working on this car called me, after he had already damaged the allens....so I had very little to offer him.
I'm now supplying all the dampers with a Torx bit. These are a bit better for loosening, but the hardware also need to be "whacked" pretty hard before attempting to remove them.
I offered to send the shop a new set of these...haven't heard anything back.
And then there's the "Snap-off" allen socket problem. For as good as they claim their tools to be, their Allen tools and Torx tools absolutely suck, in my humble opinion. Like everyone else, I've got several sets of these things, from "Snap-off". They pretty much just sit in my box and gather dust. I won't even attempt to get the screws for the cam bridges out with one of their tools....might as well order 1/2 of the hardware, before one starts the job. Stahlwille or Hazet....allens and Torx bits....they will last forever.....and get the hardware loose.
__________________
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
greg brown
714 879 9072
GregBBRD@aol.com
Semi-retired, as of Feb 1, 2023.
The days of free technical advice are over.
Free consultations will no longer be available.
Will still be in the shop, isolated and exclusively working on project cars, developmental work and products, engines and transmissions.
Have fun with your 928's people!
05-29-2018, 11:11 PM
#27
Sometimes I use blue (and only blue) Locktite, for this job, and sometimes not....just depends on my mood, at the time.
The guy that had to drill the heads off could answer this better than I can...if the "left over piece" unthreaded by fingertip when the heads were drilled off, they didn't have any Locktite on them.
Countersunk internal allen screws are notoriously troublesome to get out. The surface contact area of these pieces is extremely high and they are always tough to get out, without stripping the allen. My father taught me to always "strike" the head of these pieces (hard) before attempting to loosen them....because once you've damaged the internal allen, it's all over. Hitting the head loosens the surface tension and makes them loosen a higher percentage of the time. The mechanic working on this car called me, after he had already damaged the allens....so I had very little to offer him.
I'm now supplying all the dampers with a Torx bit. These are a bit better for loosening, but the hardware also need to be "whacked" pretty hard before attempting to remove them.
I offered to send the shop a new set of these...haven't heard anything back.
And then there's the "Snap-off" allen socket problem. For as good as they claim their tools to be, their Allen tools and Torx tools absolutely suck, in my humble opinion. Like everyone else, I've got several sets of these things, from "Snap-off". They pretty much just sit in my box and gather dust. I won't even attempt to get the screws for the cam bridges out with one of their tools....might as well order 1/2 of the hardware, before one starts the job. Stahlwille or Hazet....allens and Torx bits....they will last forever.....and get the hardware loose.
The guy that had to drill the heads off could answer this better than I can...if the "left over piece" unthreaded by fingertip when the heads were drilled off, they didn't have any Locktite on them.
Countersunk internal allen screws are notoriously troublesome to get out. The surface contact area of these pieces is extremely high and they are always tough to get out, without stripping the allen. My father taught me to always "strike" the head of these pieces (hard) before attempting to loosen them....because once you've damaged the internal allen, it's all over. Hitting the head loosens the surface tension and makes them loosen a higher percentage of the time. The mechanic working on this car called me, after he had already damaged the allens....so I had very little to offer him.
I'm now supplying all the dampers with a Torx bit. These are a bit better for loosening, but the hardware also need to be "whacked" pretty hard before attempting to remove them.
I offered to send the shop a new set of these...haven't heard anything back.
And then there's the "Snap-off" allen socket problem. For as good as they claim their tools to be, their Allen tools and Torx tools absolutely suck, in my humble opinion. Like everyone else, I've got several sets of these things, from "Snap-off". They pretty much just sit in my box and gather dust. I won't even attempt to get the screws for the cam bridges out with one of their tools....might as well order 1/2 of the hardware, before one starts the job. Stahlwille or Hazet....allens and Torx bits....they will last forever.....and get the hardware loose.
05-30-2018, 01:58 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Ya...the car is done. They likely found some HW locally, as you had suggested. Ill be able to inquire about things when I get up there in a few days...maybe as far out as Saturday.
They ran into no issues on reassembly.
They ran into no issues on reassembly.
05-30-2018, 05:56 PM
#29
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What about some blue loctite on the threads and anit-seize on the collet? It is a bit futzy but can be done, carefully, without ‘mixing.’
05-30-2018, 06:00 PM
#30
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