Hammer928

Hammer928

It's an '85 Euro, if that matters.

Mrmerlin

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Mark Anderson

Hammer928


too soon?

Jerry Feather

The locked or secure mode for the 928 gas cap is for the pawl inside it to be pulled back by the tumbler and held back so that the teeth on the front of the pawl do not engage the teeth in the cap to lock them together so that the red part will turn the whitish part and unscrew it. So, locked is really unsecured and secure is really kind of unlocked. The most common failure is the back of the pawl breaks off so that it cannot be pulled back by the tumbler and therefore is unsecured. I think that only if there is some issue with the key turning the tumbler will there be an inability to unscrew the cap. In other words if you were to secure the cap with the pawl pulled back and then the key will not turn the tumbler to let the pawl forward to engage the other teeth only then will the red part free-wheel without unscrewing the cap. Is that what you mean be "locked?" If so, that is where Stan's advise comes into play with the screw to lock the inner and outer parts together.

Hammer928

1985 Euro 928. Somehow gas cap is locked (I never locked it) and key fits and turns, but tumblers not working. Need some way to 'pick' the lock without destrooying the 0EM cap.

Jerry Feather

You need to describe what you mean by the cap is locked. Does the red outer part of the cap rotate freely without unscrewing the cap? If so, it is locked. If the key turns within the cap, then there is nothing wrong with the key or lock. What do you mean by the tumblers not working?

What was wrong with dealing with this in your original thread?

Mrmerlin

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Hammer928

Jerry -
Thank you for your reply. The red section of the cap does rotate. I can't recall how far it rotates (as in 360 degrees, or something less than that.)
Can't check on that until tomorrow morning. Yes the key does fit into the lock, and it turns. Which allows the red part to move.
But I can't recall (until i check it again) how much or in which direction it moves.
It just seemed too me like something 'internal' in the lock must have shifted out of place. I DID have the fuel pump replaced, by a local shop about a month ago.
But i filled it with gas after that, and I've never locked the gas cap by key. Don't drive it that far, and it's always garaged at home, so I've never felt the need to.
John H.

SteveG

John, Welcome to the shark tank. You have two identical threads going. Might want to close one in order to prevent confusion.

It won't help with this question, but the New Visitor thread at top is a wealth of information and sources.

Jerry Feather

John, There is an anomaly going here with the 928 gas cap. Ordinarily when something is locked that means that something is put in the way of something else to stop something from moving, unlatching, rotating or opening. In the case of the 928 Gas cap it is much the opposite. With the cap it is locked when something is pulled OUT OF THE WAY of something else and thereby locks it. That something is the ratcheting pawl which when locked is pulled out of the way of its corresponding ratcheting teeth so that it can neither turn into place and then ratchet when snug, or it cannot have the teeth lock into place to allow the cap to be unscrewed turning the other way. The result is that the two main parts of the cap are no longer locked together, but the cap is secure from tampering with your fuel since the cap can no longer be removed.

The failure mode of the gas cap is to have the ratcheting pawl in its extended position with the teeth engaged so it will both ratchet into place and it will have the teeth engaged to unscrew the cap. Many 928 caps are semi permanently in this condition with a broken pawl.

In your case with the key being inserted into the lock and the lock turning, apparently independently from the body of the gas cap, that means that there is nothing wrong with the key or lock. There is a cam or lug on the bottom of the lock that will pull the Pawl back in its groove to secure the cap but it is pot metal and is working against a nylon-like pawl, so I cannot imagine how any failure can occur that will hold the pawl away from the teeth in the cap, and still allow the lock to rotate.

It seems to me that the only time the need for Stan's solution is when the key will not turn the lock and the lock is holding the pawl away from the teeth. I can't imagine any other failure mode that results in the key turning the lock but the pawl is not engaged in the teeth. The key in the lock should only turn 180 degrees.

So when you say you found the cap locked and you did not lock it I wonder just exactly what you found.

Mrmerlin

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Hammer928

Jerry -
Thanks again. I was able to get it freed today. I forced it to rotate a bit after it (with key inserted) stopped at 180 degree mark.
After a couple 'clicks', it started to release and unscrew. Still workable (didn't break anything', but there is a hole (semi circular) in the bottom of the center (white) part.
Not sure if that hole is supposed to be there, or if a bit broke off due to old age/climate deteriorating
TY again....

John H.

Mrmerlin

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Randy V

It doesn't.