dr bob

Fred -- That 40wt fell out more slowly than 30wt. Good reason when you own what's now a "vintage" British or American motorcycle.

Dave928S

Interesting ....
Fred or Bruce ... I'm interested in the performance of Castrol R, as I used it in a formula 3 motor (dry sumped) which used to spin to 12,000 rpm, which went for years without distress. I stuck with what was tried and had proved to be successful, but I always marvelled at how watery it was when really hot, and yet I could flog that motor without mercy without any issue. I'd love to hear what it is about that oil that makes it so amazingly good. Side note ... the smell is soooo good that I also used it in my lawnmower. Sorry for the sidetrack Bruce ... and thanks for your post.

FredR

Dave,

Charles Wakefield the founder of the company was something of a visionary in the lubrication business. He left the company he was working for as a general manager and started his own business.Mineral oils were relatively new to the world evolving around the 1850's and although better than previous technology, it still had many known limitations. Wakefield started looking for superior lubrication and around 1909 found that when small quantities of castor oil were added to mineral oil the resulting formulation provided much greater performance on highly stressed motors. His genius was in associating his oils with high performance endeavours of the day and his ability to market this association [a predecessor to today's marketing companies].

What in effect he discovered was that straight mineral oils tended to pond whereas his discovery enabled the oil to coat metal surfaces more evenly in a very thin layer albeit I understand they had no clue as to what was going on at the time. This gave his "high tech" oil a leading edge over other producers for many years. Later on Castrol were one of the first companies [if not the very first] to use ZDDP around 1949 and a bit later tungsten additives. Basically they have been at the cutting edge of lube oil development for the last century and today are owned by BP [or were last I heard].

Most folks who raced British motorcycles use Castrol R. A popular trick in the UK was to add a bit of Castrol R to the fuel tank to give that amazing smell in the exhaust. Additive technology developed rapidly in the second half or the 20th century and today most mineral oils perform amazingly well. A top notch mineral oil will outperform a mediocre synthetic albeit it will not be as effective for the amount of time a synthetic will. The mistake many make is to put a lower viscosity synthetic into a motor that was designed with a 20w50 in mind. That is what Bruce is alluding to or so I understand. Stick a top notch 20w50 synthetic into the motor and you will get even better performance potential but then the question is whether one really needs the protection of such.

As I am aware this is exactly what the likes of Mark Kibbort does. He espouses the virtues of Amsoil synthetic 20W50 and interestingly he has no history of 2/6 failure and I suspect he beats on his motor as hard as anyone is ever likely to. Use a good technology 20W50 mineral oil in your 928 motor and you are unlikely to have any issues- just change it more frequently. Run the motor hard on witch **** brews and be prepared for attrition. Just keep the revs below 6k rpm on long sweeping left hand bends!

M. Requin

There was a group up near Watkins Glen that used to watch old home-made racing movies while one of them dripped Castrol R from an eyedropper onto a hot plate for atmosphere. Or so I'm told.

stuartbrs

There are stories of Lotus Mechanics putting a tin of Catrol R on the stove tops as they worked through the night on the F1 cars at whatever track they happened to be at. Its lovely stuff. We used it in Kart Racing. I also used to drop a capful of it into the tank of my Morris Mini when I owned it. Seems to have disappeared from Historic racing at my local circuit though.

DeWolf

^ My grandfather would put 500ml in every time he filled the tank (45L Tank) in the old EK Holden. My father then got the car when Pop died and continued the Castrol Castor Oil in the tank thing. That car done 600,000 miles without a single problem.

UpFixenDerPorsche

Hey Bruce - been wondering where you've been these last few years. :-\

Whenever our oil debates have got really tough, you've never flinched re use of sniping, spiteful inference about the habits of previous owners leading to the cause of failure that suits your argument.
Think I'm kidding?

It's all on record here on Rennlist.

You remember, don't you Bruce - Doug Hilary (the designer of the first 20W-50 oil at Duckhams), who you accused him of paying me (a Joe Blow who used Delvac 5W-40), to somehow endorse Mobil Exxon products. Here on Rennlist history.

Then there was the 10,000km+ (including 100mph driving) Used Oil Analysis (UOA) history of the Delvac 5w-40 in Doug's S4. Again documented here on Rennlist. Showing wear metal levels at the lower end of the normal range.

Bruce - we have sparred both here and on Landsharks - and the result has always been the same: whenever you've been faced with scientific evidence in contradiction of your views, you resort to smearing and innuendo to undermine the character and qualifications of your "opponent".

Bruce - without question - you are a first class Porsche mechanic. But here's the reality: all the Porsche technology - components, metallurgy, lubricants, aero parts etc, that you manipulate like easy-fit Lego blocks, have been designed by scientists and engineers with a level of education and technological understanding so far beyond that which you (an I) can ever hope to comprehend, is that the most honorable thing you can do is to gracefully "doff yer lid" to greater knowledge.

IMHO - you have become obsessed with the shortcomings of inappropriate use of a then, poor technical standard, 30 yo 5W--40 oil.

Despite technical advances in lubrication technology, with scientifically supported lower wear measurements, and your ignorance of even the slightest understanding of the meaning of the word "science", your obsession is what has underpinned your motivation to produce this truly remarkable "trove".

Bruce - please - let it go.

This has been going now for 15+ years.
If the truth be known, many owners are OCD's who drive their cars so infrequently that their engines would survive on olive oil. LOL
Others simply get on with the job of daily driving; regular oil and filter change - just as Porsche intended. 500,000M life.
Then there are the total Anoraks: not many: street/track racing. Lots of obsessive theory, but little / no experience. Change their oil quicker than their underwear. :-

If you add it all up, as far as I can remember on here, by far and away the greatest cause of engine failures have been:

- flexplate / thrust bearing failure.
- ingested grit from sandblasted intake manifolds.
- corroded engine blocks - c/- low coolant concentration.
- engine wear c/- indifferent attitude to oil/filter changes.
- high G 928 cornering on slicks. 2/6 bearing failure.

Message: change oil/coolant as per manual. Heavier in summer and lighter in winter
Otherwise use like an everyday car, esp for Oz grand touring.

BUT: keep sustained autobahn revs below 6000 on anything but the straightest of roads.
(high G cornering = 2/6 bearing failure).

Cheers.
UpFixen.

Tim Cooper

A lot of detail is on manufacturer websites so you may find viscosity at various temperatures, usually 40 or 100C and HTHS figures for 150C iirc.

Thus as Bruce stated I can compare Millers XF 5W-50 providing 17 Cst @ 100C to Millers CF 10W-50 providing 20 Cst @ 100.

We should be grateful for technology, I remember as a child we had a fleet on straight 40; on a cold frosty morning nothing started!

SeanR

And the rest of us know why you've been banned from most every forum/email group. Posts like this.

hb253

Agreed they provide basic information as you describe, but I haven't found any company that posts graphs showing viscosity across the entire temperature range. They seem to like keeping secrets

Hugo

JET951

What a bizarre post from "UpFixen " ( full of lies & hate ) , he must be ashamed of using his name to attach to his post so he hides behind a made up name of UpFixen

Hope you get better

Regards
Bruce B

Ad0911

Talk about some light reading...
I think I'll just stick to the oil specification as prescribed in the manual

UpFixenDerPorsche

As it happens Sean, I haven't.
Bruce chose to make things very ugly and personal over the years, both here on Rennlist, and on Landsharks in Australia.
That he chose these forums to use personal denigration when he found himself out of his depth on technical issues was disgraceful.
Everything I wrote is factually correct.
I've readily acknowledged Bruce's wealth of experience and contributions he's made to the 928 knowledge base.
His anti 5W-40 obsession is both still evident and technically misleading, so I'm calling him out on it, along with his behaviour, just as others do here re other contentious topics.

End of Story.

UpFixenDerPorsche

You haven't changed one iota have you Bruce?

You well know who I am, but for those who don't it's:

John Cumming,
Brisbane, Australia.
('89 S4 and '90 GT).

I've said my piece, and for me, the subject is closed.
Apologies to all innocent bystanders.

John C.

JET951

Oh , my goodness , is it John ? , is that s you're name , hiding behind that made up name or meaning less word of "Up Fixen " , you were banned from Landhark because of years and years of horrible personal attacks you made to numerous people , for years we just put up with it , until one day you got out of control & its very strange , you were only ever interested in attacking people personally , it was as if you had no answers to the simple technical questions I would ask you or anyone .

Note } On the landshark site , for the few years before you were banned , a lot of people were too afraid to post on the site because of how "off Topic " you had become ( that to put it mildly ) , since you were banned more & more people now post on Landshark

If you want to contribute , do what I do and just stay with the technical side of things , did you read my post on this thread ? did you understand any of it ? , if not, I am happy to go through any bit you did not understand , but please keep to the subject , otherwise you will end up getting banned from this site as well

And please , have the courage to write you name to what you write , or are you ashamed oh what you post ?

The above is my opinion of what I remember in regards to the above

Regards
Bruce B