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My garage for doing work - mostly on the 928 of course - has been the workroom of our studio building. It was to be for woodworking, making frames and that sort of thing. Jammed up with stuff, but comfortable: the studio has radiant heat. I had mapped out the tubes during construction, but it was still a nail-biter applying the hammer drill to the slab for installing the Max Jax.
Radiant heat in the slab was "beyond the scope" of the new garage project. And I can drill into the concrete anywhere I like. Adding electric elements under tile - I'll keep that in mind. There's no insulation under the slab, though - two-inches of foam is standard practice. If I had a friend with chops in heat transfer, I'd ask him to figure out the effect of having two million pounds of concrete, gravel and dirt thermally connected to the insides of the garage (that's going down 10 feet, where the year-round temperature here is 56°F. I have figured out that air temperature will always be within a few degrees of the slab temperature. It's the ratio of the [whatever R you can assign to the slab/air interface] / [effective R for heat flow resistance out the walls and ceiling, figured for floorpan area] * [inside T - outside T]. The full 3D analysis has to include the slow transfer of heat into and out of the semi-infinite dirt "column" under the slab. There is some foam around the "haunch" of the Alaskan slab, both vertically and buried horizontally to discourage frost from getting underneath.
Your project looks great, Terry. Kudos to your wife! The last time I looked at my spreadsheet of actual and estimated costs (not recently), I was headed for around $60K - less than I expected. That includes paid labor for excavation, concrete, truss/roof work and drywall. I should figure it up again. My pickup truck looks like it's owned by a real general contractor - the passenger seat is covered with lumber yard tickets.
I've climbed the "46" twice, some in the winter. Those in the Rockies laugh at our little mountains here, but they'd stop laughing a few miles into the sort of trails we have to traverse. If Jon is reading this: the Adirondacks are relatively new mountains formed by a rather rapid rise of ancient anorthosite - we might be sitting on top of a future supervolcano. Don't tell Hagerty. Camp 928 attendees will want to do the 20 minute hike up our own mountain out back. This video depicts the more serious stuff:
Yup...I've been reading about the rising magma lifting the Adirondacks. The rocks are some of the oldest crust...actually the same as the Precambrian Canadian shield, first formed from the cooling of the primordial magma ball that would become Earth. The lighter colored highland rocks on the moon are also anorthosite, and of similar radiometric age. We know this because the Apollo astronauts brought some back. This discovery lead to the conclusion that the moon was formed by a Precambrian impact with something about the size of Mars, spewing ejecta that eventually formed a ring, and eventually gravity globbed it all together into the moon. Roughly simultaneously the cooling magma back on Earth resulted in the anorthosite under your feet. Think of the early earth as a very hot fatty beef stew...let it cool over night and the lighter (less dense) animal fats will form a skin on the surface - the anorthosite is rich in Ca-plagioclase feldspar, made primarily of SiO4 - silicon-oxygen tetrahedrons (plagioclase varieties make up more than half of Earth's crust). SiO4 makes anorthosite less dense than Ca, Fe, Mg rich minerals...so anorthosite (the fat) rose to the surface, becoming Earth's early crust.
Now...if magma is rising under New England, it is likely akin to what is happening under Yellowstone...you know, the Supervolcano
I used interlocking urethane tiles for my floor - https://armorpoxy.com/supratile-inte...or-tiles-info/ Not as cheap as $1 per square foot porcelain tiles, but really easy to install. The manufacturer often has overstocks at a reduced price and offers cyber-monday specials. Prep is limited to cleaning the floor and filling any large cracks. The tiles stand up well to abuse - i.e. rotors dropped from 7 feet up and do not stain unless oil or something else sits for months. Plus if you wreck a tile, you just pull it up and pop in another.
That looks great, Otto. I'll have to look for cyber monday sales. Maybe do just Stall #1 - the showroom area inside the "man door", where the desk and cabinets will go - something like $1500 worth would cover that.
If you have a spill, is it a problem having stuff seeping under the tiles? Can you give a car a light "bucket" wash?
I got the T-slot interlocking tiles and they lock together pretty tightly. I had to use a big dead blow hammer to lock them together. The result is that liquids seep through only where the corners meet and more viscous fluids can be cleaned up before they pass through. I wouldn't hesitate to bucket wash the car as long as I had a mop handy. Water gets through, but not a lot of it.
Nice build there Curt, I love the open ceiling as that's just dead space (or at least will be) on mine as its a flat bottom truss.
The under ground water requirement is 5' in Norther MI. I put both water and electric in plastic conduit, so I won't have to re-dig if ever needed
I did one 10'x10' door and two 9'x8', and later found backing a auto trailer into an 9'x8' wasn't going to happen w/ my trailer skills as the opening gets a few inches smaller once all the trim is all done, 10'x10 had no issues.
Curious how the Heater will work out in the North, I do like that idea of yours, mine is a 32'x48' a tad over 1500 sq feet. After I get the ceiling completed this summer I'm thinking of doing "blown in" insulation, guessing that wasn't an option with your setup.
You built a great looking garage/shop, will be a nice place to hang out and tinker
I have two mini-split units, one in the studio and one in the house. At the time, only Fujitsu made the sort that worked when real cold (-15°F). They are not sized to heat their whole spaces - just 12,000 BTU units - but they cut our fuel use in half and are really good before and after it gets cold enough to turn on the boilers. Plus AC, of course. With the solar panels, their heat is free, sorta. But one of these Fujitsu units failed, and it seems many people have soured on them. So, I'm moving to the new Mitsubishi unit.
They now require R49 in the ceiling of houses! R38 is still OK in a heated garage. The big thing is the requirement for an inch (2x6 walls) or two (2x4 walls) of foam, continuous. Heat is no longer allowed to go through the studs. I'm having to nail up my vinyl siding with 3-inch roofing nails.
It was a good day (21°F) to drive the Bugeye over from across the road.
Very nice Curt , Its funny how you build a monster garage and , put stuff in it and think . Dang! a couple of more feet this way or that way
storage is always a issue , are you planning on storage up high ?
the lower section of mine , 20X28 has a attic floor for storage ,using the 4 post lift as a elevator
your insulation seems over the top compared to what I put in R28 , however 2 1500 w electric heaters are keeping it nice and warm in - 7/8 deg C
The lifts have arrived at my local lumber yard. The boom truck operator is paying me a visit this afternoon to scope out snowbanks and other impediments before bringing them over next week. Tricks are required to get them inside the door - the boom does not go low enough - a strong dolly or pipes to roll them on.
It's as cold as it looks, and very windy, too. By far the best "free shipping" deal I've ever gotten - ~3000 lbs, all the way from California.
More expenditures today: ordered the mini split-unit (from eComfort) and cabinets (11 pcs, NewAge Pro 3, via Home Depot). More free shipping on those, too. Also bought 10 lbs of 3-inch roofing nails for the siding.
About the storage, Terry: As shown in the sketch above, I'll put in a shelf 8 feet up on one side wall and all along the back - 68 feet. The side shelf will be about 3 feet deep, the back shelf to match the length of a standard file box. The sketch shows rounded junctions between the two, just for a little constrast. We'll see if I really do it. The shelf brackets I mentioned earlier - why, there's justification for getting a welder!
... the Adirondacks are relatively new mountains formed by a rather rapid rise of ancient anorthosite - we might be sitting on top of a future supervolcano...
Originally Posted by Captain_Slow
Yup...I've been reading about the rising magma lifting the Adirondacks. The rocks are some of the oldest crust...actually the same as the Precambrian Canadian shield, first formed from the cooling of the primordial magma ball that would become Earth. The lighter colored highland rocks on the moon are also anorthosite, and of similar radiometric age. ...
I love this forum and the knowledge available on it! I had thought the Adirondacks were older than the Himalyas and eroded down to their present state - probably a misapprehension of of an overheard statement about the age of the rock when I was fifteen, compounded by ignorant speculation. At least it proves I'm an American. ;-) ;-(
I love this forum and the knowledge available on it! I had thought the Adirondacks were older than the Himalyas and eroded down to their present state - probably a misapprehension of of an overheard statement about the age of the rock when I was fifteen, compounded by ignorant speculation. At least it proves I'm an American. ;-) ;-(
No, that's what I heard when I was a kid, too. This is new. Incidentally, recall my mention of a friend's firm that did the "high" work on the garage? He's the son of NY's former chief geologist, Yngvar Isachsen, who literally wrote the book on it.
The boom truck guy came, and we arrived at a plan for getting the lifts into the garage. I've got to make/buy a strong dolly this weekend. He's a car guy, so we had a long chat.
01-02-2018, 07:44 AM
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