bureau13

I recently was given the opportunity to drive a friend's '86 930 Turbo. Now I REALLY WANT ONE lol...that's not going to happen any time soon, but I digress. Power delivery is like my 924 Turbo, but for grownups...

Since his car and mine are both '86 cars, I can't help but compare them. His car seemed to pull a lot harder, once it was on boost. (Full disclosure, he has a full custom exhaust with no cats and a 1 bar wastegate spring, so he's faster than stock). Still, looking at horsepower and torque, they're pretty similar. In fact, stock-for-stock, the S3 has a bit more of both horsepower and torque. Also, it's a couple hundred pounds heavier, I think. In terms of gearing, I don't know exactly how they compare, but the Turbo's 4-speed seemed pretty tall, as is the 928.

It's entirely possible the 930 power delivery is confusing my senses....the V8 is a lot more of a smooth progression as you rev it, whereas the 930 is typical of turbo cars of that era, with quite a bit of drama once the boost spools up.

Anyway, just curious what the prevailing wisdom is on these cars, from people who have or have driven both.

PS: I will say that anyone who thinks the 928 clutch is heavy should drive a 930. Yikes...

V2Rocket

those had 7:1 compression and a decent-size turbo so they needed time/RPM to spool.
the sudden kick in power + the rear weight bias is why the 930 got a widowmaker reputation.

Ghosteh

I've owned both a 1985 928 manual and a 1985 930 manual, at different times.

Completely different driving experiences. The 928 felt more slippery, with strong acceleration that was even and smooth, and pulls like a train. It's a very FAST car, and feels low and sleek.
The 930 felt like a blunt hammer, with acceleration that was jerky and sudden. It's a QUICK car, that felt upright and brash. It pulls like a (barely) controlled explosion.

The beautiful exhaust sound of the 930 was (IMHO) much more entertaining. I drove it in 100% stock configuration, and with an upgraded turbo and cooler. There was nothing that made me chuckle more than hearing the gurgling of that turbo and the "pop pop" of flames coming out of the exhaust pipe when I decelerated, or hearing that turbo spool up and suddenly release, throwing you back as you accelerated. Yes, the rear end DOES get squirrely if you're not paying attention. My favorite quote about the 930 was something akin to "like dating a girl so pretty that you forget that she's a homicidal axe-murderer". That summed it up pretty well!

The 928 holds its own, IMHO. It's different, but just as appealing. Crazy redheads vs. girl-next-door brunettes. One thing I didn't like about the 930 was that it was hard to keep sealed up; it dripped oil like a dog marking its territory. Even after resealing the case, it still leaked. I blame the increased pressure of the larger turbo. My 928 must have been a good one, because it never leaked a drop. The only thing I really didn't like about it was the color; hellbronze with brown interior. The 930 was Prussian blue with blue interior, which was a much better combo, IMHO.

I owned the 930 for about 7 years, and sold it for more than twice what I paid for it. That was a pretty good deal. The '85 928 stayed for about 2 years, and it brought pretty much the same money. IF I was going to buy one back today, I'd go for the 928, which I think is a much better value for the dollar.

Incidentally, I replaced the 930 with a Viper GTS (still have), which has acceleration that feels like an Atlas rocket compared to the 930. Its bite isn't quite as unpredictable as the 930, but it's much harder.

dr bob

One of each would be fabulous. They are exactly opposite in so many ways though.

SwayBar

The Viper GTS is still one of my all-time favorites - what a beautiful car!

DeWolf

Owned an 85 930 and have owned a few 928's as well. Have an 86.5 manual currently. The 930 is a very quick car once it's on boost, obviously. Quoted times were 0-100Kmh in 5.1 vs the 928's 6.5. Then you have in gear acceleration. There's no way a standard 928 would keep with a 930 on full song. In saying that though, I sold the 930 to get back into a 928.

bureau13

I agree with Dr. Bob...one of each would be the way to go. That's kinda why I bought the 931...such a different driver experience. It's no 930 of course, but it also wasn't $100K...

GeorgeM

Yessir...
it is and I agree, they are quite opposite. So is the '89 3.2 in the middle of the pic, but much more "civilized" and enjoyable to drive around town than the Turbo.

bureau13

Damn, George...how do you pick your ride each morning? Very nice!

GeorgeM

Thanks, Jeff. The Turbo was an opportunity purchase a couple of years ago that I couldn't pass up. I always wanted one (still would love to have an '89 with the G50), but it just never made it high enough on the list. I've been sprucing it up to resell at some point. I'm pretty sure I already have a local buyer. He's just waiting 'til I'm ready to sell and I'm still fiddling with it and keeping an eye on the market.

It is quite the entertaining ride. The '84s supposedly came with 330hp and this one has a K27/Garretson setup, although I did remove the adjustable boost for preservation's sake and it has a stock, .8bar spring. Regardless, it's not slow.

I'll admit that I prefer the 3.2, especially around town. The GT, of course, remains my favorite, even though I've owned the 3.2 for 20 years.

It can be tough to choose, depends on maint status, location in the garage, mood.... I usually drive my pickup truck to work, but decided to drive this today:

linderpat

I've also had the good fortune to drive both. The 86.5 928S was mine, and my friend let me drive his 876 930 Ruf conversion. That Ruf was a widow maker in every sense of the word. The polar opposite of the 928 - it was much lighter/nimbler and far more "squirrelly" . The slightest lift off the gas on a bend with the turbo kicking in brought immediate "end-of-life" visions, and the counter-intuitive move to mash the gas brought it all back under control. I feel faint hints of that old devil lurking deep in the soul of my new to me 05 911. I have never felt like the 928 was going to bite me, and it never has (well, except for once, while driving on a cold, wet morning with summer tires, and doing a 180 in front of two very large dump trucks barreling down on me, but that's a different story for another day). Anyway, George, you are my hero (and you too Ghosteh).

CardinalCar

My dad had an '82 Canadian-market 930 while I was growing up, I drove it a few times before he sold it and got a 996TT. The power delivery was scary, particularly in the wet when taking one hand off the wheel to shift while clutching in was enough to cause a small wiggle on the rear end from the weight transfer. His was a 4-speed and the gearbox was fairly agricultural but there was no mistaking what the car was doing. I didn't drive it quickly due to a strong sense of self-preservation but the acceleration in a straight line was very entertaining. He had the torsion bars ratcheted down to the point of almost no suspension travel so the ride was terrible in the real world. The brakes were epic and the steering was outstanding once under way, but rather heavy at parking lot speeds.

There's no comparison with my GT, which is so much bigger, heavier, smoother, etc. In practical terms probably not a lot slower either, but it feels so much more heavily damped. The 930 is much more of a toy but the Spousal Acceptance Factor on the 928 is off the scale in comparison. I'd be hard pressed to think of a scenario in which either car could be the answer to the same question on any given day.

Catorce

I have many turbos of different stripes, and used to have 3 stockish S4s. What people miss with the 930 and Turbos in general is their ability to be modded to make insane levels of power. Consider the 602 hp motor Carl made me for the Devore car - lots of custom bits, lots of one off stuff, basically everything is custom.

Now consider the 930 engine I just built. Fuel injection, runs on AEM Infinity, twin coil on plug, Twin scroll turbo, the motor makes 550rwhp in its sleep even with the inefficient pancake manifold. The cost of the motor is the same as a built 928 motor - about 55K, but the difference is that my 930 motor is an absolute lamb (if you really want to go nuts, you ditch the pancake manifold) whereas my 928 motor is almost at the pinnacle of what can be done with the 928.

Chassis wise, you can take all the evil out of a 911. You can essentially put a 935 style suspension on them, huge tires, massive brakes, and they are almost competitive with the new cars.

So yeah, a stock 928 vs a stock 930 might be pretty close in many respects, but it doesn't take much at all to make a 930 (or any turbo) out of this world and mostly with bolt on parts.

Laslty, if you think a 928 feels big and overly dampened, the 930 also has this feeling particularly if you own other, earlier and lighter 911s. 930 feels like a heavy soundproof chamber so I guess its all relative.

docmirror

I had the chance to drive a 86 930 back more than a decade ago. I also had the chance to buy it, and of course I should have. It was the gearheads ultimate gen x toy, and could be a real handful when the boost gauge is off the stop. The delta between novice and pro driver in the 930 is more than decades of experience. The 928 can be handled by pretty much anyone. Mistakes in the 928 are dealt with by proper technique. Mistakes in the 930 require a full staff of trained drivers, engineers, technicians, surgeon, and possibly the re-incarnation of Richard Feynman to solve. It was for me a very 'binary' experience. You are either - under control, having a good time - or - you are in a world of shhit, hanging on for dear life.

Catorce

Meh, I'm not buying it. There is no question your average 928 is easier to drive than your average 911 but people talk about the 930 like it has 1000hp. There are Camrys out there with more power. A stock 930 is a gentle lamb.