merchauser

is someone sneaking into my garage every week and loosening my oil pan bolts? getting a bit tired of the prank!!
I stop at a gas station and tell 'em check the gas and tighten the pan bolts.

last march, when I got my car, I spent about 2 weeks meticulously cleaning my engine and fixing a host of minor oil
leaks. looked wonderful for a about a month, and then my oil cooler started leaking; took a while to clean up that mess.

got underneath the car last night and the bottom of the engine and suspension has a nice coating of oil: many of the
oil pan bolts were nearly loose.

so, is this a prank played on newbies?? what's the deal? I see that there are stud kits available, but surely, the factory
bolts should stay in place and not back out?

can someone clue me in?

Mrmerlin

what kind of pan gasket do you have?

Ideal is to swap in a silicone gasket.
clean the bolt holes and the bolts.
put some blue thread locker on the bolts and put them in about 1/2 turn past snug will do it.

That said if the bolts are backing out then maybe you need a new crank damper as well

merchauser

are the different gaskets different colors? this one is black, or perhaps oil soaked? not in the mood to R&R the pan gasket,
can I take one bolt out at a time and reinstalled with threadlocker?

why would you think I need a damper? I don't notice or feel any sort of vibration.

davek9

IMO you have an original Cork gasket and no amount of resetting the bolts is going to stop it from leaking, it will only get worse.
Sounds like its time to "bite the bullet" and do the Motor Mounts along with the pan gasket.

Just a guess, is the oil pan lower than the engine Cross member, it should be about even and lower is an indication of bad mounts.
Most here do both at the same time or pull the engine and do it all

Dave K

Mrmerlin

since you tightened the bolts and in a short period of time they are loose again,........... it indicated vibration in the block .

NOTE its possible to replace the gasket without dropping the crossmember, this works best if your motor mounts are good.

merchauser

Stan: motor mounts are good. just did steering rack a few months ago, perhaps I should have done
pan gasket at that time. tell me about replacing with crossmember in, AND is the stud kit a good idea??

jeff spahn

I am not sure if you can do a stud kit with the crossmember in place. Perhaps you could do the gasket, put two bolts in to hold the pan and then do almost all the studs. Seems half assed way to do it. Pull the crossmember and do the gasket and be done for 10 years.

dr bob

Replacing the gasket without dropping the crossmember includes unbolting the sump and allowing it to drop all the way down to the crossmember. Remove the old gasket carefully, being exceptionally careful to not drop any chunks or crumbs into the sump. Easiest to section the old gasket, and remove the sections one by one with a sharp scraper. Once all the old gasket is out and the sealing faces are cleaned thoroughly, you can pull a new silicone gasket into place. It gets wrapped around the sump on the outside, then temporarily secured to the sump with small cable ties, thread or thin wire strands as you work the gasket up around the flange into place. Once in place, start putting clean bolts into clean holes, with a drop of thread locker. Push the sump up into place and turn the bolts until they just touch evenly on the sump flange. Then evenly bring them up another half-turn or so to add some slight pressure on the gasket. Let everything sit overnight so the threadlocker can firm up, and Don't Mess With The Sump Bolts any more. Extra tension on the bolts risks squeezing the gasket, distorting it and causing leaks.

Some of the bolts are a little inconvenient to reach with the crossmember in place. Your best friend will be a shorty 10mm flex-head ratcheting-box wrench ("gear wrench") to get some of them. Others may be accessible with a short 10mm universal socket in 1/4"-drive flavor, and some extensions. A thumb-ratchet may be handier than a regular ratchet for this.

It's a challenge fitting studs in the girdle while the sump is sitting there on the crossmember. Not impossible but a challenge. You get to clean the holes in the girdle the same way, put studs in with a consistent exposed length through the gasket and sump flange, leaving "enough" for some locking nuts to grab onto. Same Loctite and wait procedure as with the bolts, but use stronger Loctite; it needs to stay secure with the extra drag of the locking nut as it's installed.

Mrmerlin

Great write up Dr Bob.
I dont recommend fitting studs for the oil pan ,
the original bolts are the best thing to use

jpitman2

I have had good results (so far) with loctite and star washers - those with teeth on the inside. Did a 1 by 1 R&R of the accessible bolts, cleaned the bolt threads, cleaned the holes, applied loctite and washer, tightened to ~7lb/ft (with an inch -lb wrench). Has stayed tight for a year or two now. Loosening off is normal/common on alloy blocks, especially with such low tensions on them. - talk to a classic Range Rover owner.
jp 83 Euro S AT 57k

The Forgotten On

My main mechanic ( an ex factory 928 mechanic) said that when the cars leaked oil from the pan from the factory they just snugged up the bolts.

This issue goes back years and can only be remedied with using some threadlocker on the bolts.

dr bob

I followed the "snug them up and add threadlocker" protocol until the car was old enough for the gasket to get crispy and not seal well anymore, even after a little more tension on the bolts. Gasket replacement was the only fool-proof option. My motor mounts were still fine, but I went ahead and dropped the crossmember for the full monty including new mounts. I've installed a few silicone gaskets in clinic cars with good results, using stud kits and nylok-style nuts. The hardware looks OK, but the orange gasket just isn't for me and my full original appearance ownership strategy. The original cork gasket "only" lasted 25 years or so. The replacement composite cork-and-neoprene gasket should last at least that long again. I'll probably need another set of motor mounts before this gasket starts to seep.

Keep in mind of course that I replaced the gasket because there was a massive dime-sized oil slick under the car after winter hibernation a couple winters ago. The work was done a year ago now, immediately prior to winter 2016-17 hibernation. Everything looks new and pristine-perfect under there as it pretty much always has.

----

My winter project list now includes dropping the torque tube and transmission for some rework, and rebuilding the trans cooler lines with new hydraulic hose. Why? Another dime-sized oil slick under the rear of the car, dripping from the corner of the right-side exhaust heat shield forward of the torque converter. Rebuild a torque tube, new TC bearings, lots of cleaning while the gearbox and rear suspension are out on the floor.

GregBBRD

^^^^^This! Yeah!^^^^^

The orange silicone gasket offends my sense of originality. Looks like someone sealed the pan with a tube of orange silicone from Pep Boys. And if you use the stock bolts with the silicone gasket (instead of studs) you can only torque them to about 3 ft. lbs. And they fall out. And the people that supply the stud kits can't figure out that there are 25 of one length and 5 of another length. Sometimes you get 30 short ones....and sometimes you get 30 long ones.

Other than that, everything is perfect with the silicone gasket....

I can put in a stock pan gasket and forget about it for the first ten years. After that, I find I need to snug the bolts every once in a while. At 25 years, the gasket needs to be replaced.

dr bob

The bright orange silicone gasket reaches out and grabs your attention, not so hot in my maintained-as-original engine bay. Oh well... The stock bolts work OK with the silicone gasket, using either the inch-pound torque screwdriver or maybe a good inch-pound torque wrench. The desired torque is 7 inch/lbs per my trusty Japanese torque screwdriver, at contact plus three flats/half a turn. The torque screwdriver works great for most of the bolts, while there are plenty that have straight-on access obstructed. Hence the make-them-touch plus half a turn prescription that's needed for bolts accessed with a wrench. Cleaned bolts in cleaned holes, and a drop of threadlocker allowed to dry overnight, as shared before. Else the bolts -will- fall out, even with star lockwashers. The OP's question about doing all this with the crossmember in place will prove to be an exercise in frustration, more so if the studs and locknuts are used. There is just not enough room for fingers and tools in the very limited space between the girdle and the sump sitting down on the crossmember to place the studs. It's maybe an inch if you have a way to hold the engine up a little on the mounts. Think crossbar over the engine for this, maybe loosen the bolts that hold the MM brackets to the girdle and block to gain a little more clearance.

85euro928

Here's another idea. Drop the cross member, pull the pan and clean everything up spic n span, contact Greg and get one of his aluminum pan spacers. Put the pan spacer on using studs and NO gaskets, just Loctite 574. Be done with it once and for all.