dr bob

K regularly cranks on me for underbilling time. I spend time on the phone with clients as they work through issues not directly in scope but close enough that it's worth a discussion. A large percentage of the time it grows enough to be added to scope at some point. I call it goodwill, marketing, whatever. Meanwhile, she charges her time by the minute and generally can't imagine giving them away. A few of her clients are gabby and take a lot of extra time and attention. She bills them for it. So we differ on philosophy a bit on this.

Back to working on the cars... I don't charge for clinic work. I'm too slow, for one thing. I'm having more and more trouble holding on to the tools. Greg, Stan, Sean, Colin, Dave C, you'll never need to worry about me stealing your business. I think there have been 4 clinic days here in 3 years, and I generally make the clinic guests do at least half of the work on their cars. They get tools, guidance, space and company. There are some exceptions but very few in the big picture. Better to teach someone how to fish...

Red Flash

And here we go just as Worf predicted: for me, an intake refresh automatically would include the valve covers, because if you don't do both at the same time, the intake manifold and valve covers will inevitably be different colors when PCed (at different times)!

I have had work done by both Worf and Greg. Happy with both, but it shows how important correct comparisons are here and how important correct expectations from the customers needs to be in general.

Imo000

I work half as fast as a pro and change less than half. At some point I stop counting the hours too. for example if a bell hosing bolt take 2 hours to remove instead of 5-10 minutes because it's corroded, I don't change extra. My speed is usually limited by tools/equipment I have. For me it's a hobby not a full time job and quality over speed is a sacrifice I'm willing to take.

Rob Edwards

Fortunately Porsche has anticipated this conversation and published a definitive guide. And as we all know, Porsche literature is never wrong, so this should settle the discussion.

polecat702

Bob,

I'm going to have to take an electrical class at the JC, just so I can learn how to troubleshoot my car. I can do the nuts an bolts stuff, but I'm lost when it comes to anything electrical.

I'm about ready to burn mine to the ground!

FWIW, I got the 928 built in East Germany, the Communist ****'er!!!!!!

GlenL

My mechanic is poorly trained, makes mistakes but works cheap. He's ready to go when I am.

I find my times are less than what pros talk about. I do get going and keep going. (coffee, not beer, in the garage) I think the difference is that I'll do the work to a level of quality that suits me.

I've done work for other people and been paid. One guy complained about the time and that he could have done it quicker. ("Welcome to my world," says 10 guys.) I'm thinking I could have done it quicker, too, but I did it "right" so it wouldn't come back.

dr bob

If your JC has an automotive electrical class, go for it! If it's a "general" or residential electrical class, you probably shouldn't invest your time. Diagnosing residential electrical stuff is from service entrance to the outlet. Doesn't get into what's inside the air conditioner or whatever is plugged in.

Our local PCA sponsors the local Central Oregon Community College automotive technician training program. It's a great program, and includes stuff that would be a big help to almost any DIY'er. The challenges are still there in electrical. They offer training on modern car systems and diagnostics, using the on-board diagnostics built into none of our cars. Our local chapter includes mostly late-model Porsche owners. Checkbook cars with checkbook owners. There's a core group of long-timers with older cars, many of whom have some troubleshooting and repair skills forced upon them by the cars themselves. Even the most diagnostic basic stuff is a fading art, as the older cars and their DIY owners are fewer.

Having a problem with your same-year-and-color-as-mine 928? If you can follow instructions and read a DMM, generally we can give you some guidance on what to look at and what readings you should see. Truth be told, it takes a lot longer to type the steps with all the possible branches in a diagnostic logic description vs. doing the actual work. I know that Alan in Phoenix started a few years ago on a pretty good how-to for 928 electrics. Don't know where that stands. My hat's off to him for even thinking about taking this on.

Anyway -- point us to a thread that discusses the problems you are seeing.

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To this thread's original subject, trying to offer a realistic estimate of time-to-solve 928 electrical issues is virtually impossible. Some stuff is pretty straightforward for some, and can be a cloud of blue smoke for others. The 928 can be an expensive car to learn on, that's for sure.

mj1pate

For us casual non-pros; smaller job times can be cut in half, by employing a lift. Anyone can have a lift. If your garage is too low for a two poster or scissor lift, then a quick jack lift will surely work.

Casual mechanics can and should take our time. While following Dwayne's excellent TB/WP bible (where is Dwayne these days?) , I noticed his tensioner stem minus the (easy to lose) washer while mine still had the washer. We non-pros have to be extra situationally-aware and that’s just going to take extra time.

dr bob

Lift tangent: I added a MaxJax medium-rise lift to the garage workbay several many years ago now, and it seems to EXTEND the time spent on the cars. Specific tasks are a lot faster and easier, but the amount of WYAIT and cleaning escalates very quickly when undercar access is so easy. eg: the hand-waxed undercarriage on the Honda and Toyota DD's. It's part of an annual ritual called "spring cleaning", believe it or not. No use having a pristine well-protected finish on the top when the wheelwells and exposed running gear are still dirty brown. OCD isn't a disease or an easily-cured addiction. This is just stuff that needs to be done...

jeff spahn

Well I have to say a motor mount/opg job was done on my car in under an hour by the dfw crew.