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Hey!! I don't think those wires are melted!! A few of them look like insulation has been CHEWED off them. Looks exactly like the damage I repaired under the fuse block in my Suburban. The "melted" appearance may be a type of liquid electrical tape that was applied (I did this too). Take a very careful look again and make sure that is melted insulation.
I'm almost 100% sure those two brown wires on the backside of the panel were chewed by a mouse!
A few of them look like insulation has been CHEWED off them.
Jon, I think your right! They are much more jagged than having been abraded. And the discoloration that I thought was melting may be a liquid insulator. I have never used a liquid electrical tape, but in looking closer at the pictures it looks like there are drops on nearby wires that are not consistent with melting.
I was noticing what may also be bite marks on some of the gray wires.
I guess when the car gets here, I'll put some mouse traps inside it. Maybe the mice are not there anymore.
Thanks for noticing that!
Although, I am not sure which is harder to fix. Melted or chewed. The chewing could be anywhere in the car as well.
And this is not what I am trying to solve, I am trying to solve a no start issue.
This is not a normal thing - something quite odd happened here...
I too don't buy any mechanical type explanation - a stock good/normal condition CE panel laying loose on a bare sheet of grounded steel would be perfectly safe IMO... its something "other"
Alan
So there you go Alan, mice chewing would take away the panel movement shorting out theory. This may be the "something other".
Ken
Last edited by Ken P; 10-12-2017 at 07:54 PM.
Reason: addition
Well, the mice don't chew everywhere. They like "nest" environments. However, it is likely the only fix will be replacing a harness and a panel. I'd contact Sean to discuss options.
Hey!! I don't think those wires are melted!! A few of them look like insulation has been CHEWED off them. Looks exactly like the damage I repaired under the fuse block in my Suburban. The "melted" appearance may be a type of liquid electrical tape that was applied (I did this too). Take a very careful look again and make sure that is melted insulation.
I'm almost 100% sure those two brown wires on the backside of the panel were chewed by a mouse!
The car is supposed to be shipped to me on Monday.
So I will be able to investigate it more then, to see the extent of the damage and get clarification on the type of damage, mice or other.
Jon, it didn't look real messy, so if they had nested, it may have been cleaned up by another shop. Maybe the ones that coated the wires? But there were some un-coated areas on some of the wires. Maybe mice came back or not all areas were coated.
In looking closer at the pictures I had it did look like some of the conductors were cut / chewed through. I'll have to check the part number of the panel if they can be different.
And then check out the options.
Yes...it's been cleaned up then repairs attempted. I still have a parasitic drain in my Suburban and I suspect I haven't found all the chewed wires that are grounding or touching a neighbor. It's intermittent...after a bumpy ride it can go away...or come back.
If it turns out to be mouse damage it's likely the mice are responsible for the electrical issues reported.
I'd be looking for a good used harness or one of the harnesses Sean or others make.
I guess it's slightly better news if this is all mouse damage - mainly because it removes the mystery of what strange electrical condition caused it, and focuses attention on repairing the mouse damage and hoping it cures the electrical problems. But there's lots and lots of wire length to inspect. Time is $....so at point ripping out the old harness and replacing with new will be cheaper than paying for a ton of inspect, troubleshoot, and repair labor that may or may not solve all the problems (didn't find all the damage). Peace of mind from a new harness would be my preference....unless the goal is trying to get it functioning well enough to sell it (but I'm not the type who knowingly sells on my problems to someone else...so a new harness(es) is what I'd be looking at).
Originally Posted by Ken P
The car is supposed to be shipped to me on Monday.
So I will be able to investigate it more then, to see the extent of the damage and get clarification on the type of damage, mice or other.
Jon, it didn't look real messy, so if they had nested, it may have been cleaned up by another shop. Maybe the ones that coated the wires? But there were some un-coated areas on some of the wires. Maybe mice came back or not all areas were coated.
In looking closer at the pictures I had it did look like some of the conductors were cut / chewed through. I'll have to check the part number of the panel if they can be different.
And then check out the options.
So I got Barneys car today.
My first goal was to see if I could get it running, It has been suffering from a non start condition for 3 - 4 years.
I looked at it a week ago, and fixed the fuel pump fuse socket at Barneys house.
It still didn't start, I ran out of time trying to beat a snowstorm home and left.
The next day I was looking at the wiring diagrams and noticed a relay in the kick down relay position could keep the car from starting. I had a picture of Barneys fuse panel and there was a relay in that position!?!
So I got the car at about 3pm today. I reconnected the LH and EZK, that I had out for testing.
I removed the offending relay from the auto kick down spot, reconnected the battery ground strap and turned the key!
... It has been suffering from a non start condition for 3 - 4 years...
...noticed a relay in the kick down relay position could keep the car from starting. I had a picture of Barneys fuse panel and there was a relay in that position!?!
...I removed the offending relay from the auto kick down spot, reconnected the battery ground strap and turned the key!
It started!
...I will plan to look more at the CE Panel tomorrow. And more electrical functions.
Ken
Sigh.
Several years because some bozo thought an empty socket looked funny.
Why am I not terribly surprised?
Check the fuses in the panel too.
Compare it with the correct chart.
There are several spots where there isn't a fuse. Where there isn't supposed to be a fuse.
I have a suspicion that Mr "Hole Filling Bozo" was busy there too.
Great eye catching the relay issue. Nice when things turn out this way. Now I'm going to look at my panel and charts and make sure I don't have fuses where there shouldn't be any. I have removed some (cooling flaps).
Jon, you were right on about the mice damage. Here is a closeup of the mouse damage on the back of the CE Panel.
And here is a likely offender caught behind the drivers seat a day after I got the car.
When I put the car back together, I put a square of duct tape over the kick down relay spot so a relay could not just be pushed in there.
All of the electrical functions that I tested appear to work.
The relay that had been in the kick down spot did not appear to be correct for the headlamp washers, so I left it empty.
The retaining tabs for the Fuel Pump and the LH relay sockets were partially broken, they would push back into the panel if a relay was inserted. The lower connector lock mechanism seems to be malfunctioning. I had recommended a new (used ) panel.
I think Barney is happy to have his car running and wants it back before the snow comes in Wyoming.
Ken
Last edited by Ken P; 10-19-2017 at 12:42 AM.
Reason: correction
10-12-2017, 06:24 PM
