Notices
928 Forum
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by: 928 Specialists

Hagerty valuation

 
Old 10-05-2017, 01:30 PM
  #1  
Ghosteh
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Ghosteh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sugar Grove, IL
Posts: 724
Default Hagerty valuation

In an attempt to get me to raise my coverage (and premiums), Hagerty just sent me the link to their handy little valuation tool.

Apparently, (according to them) this year has seen the most dramatic jump in 928 value ever for concours & excellent condition cars, with all the rest following to a lesser percentage increase (but still their greatest jump). With the exception of the last 2 years, prices have been stagnant for a decade or more. Suddenly, the market is waking up to the 928.

Some of these seem slightly off, but I assume it's because there was very small group of cars in those years that were sold/for sale.


*Average value for:

1978 - $18.700
1979 - $17,200

1980 - 1982 - $14,000

1983 - 1984 - $18,200
1985 - $18,900
1986 - $18,200

1987 -1988 - $27,900

1989-1991- $27,900 (S4), $32,000 (GT)

1992-1994 GTS - $60,000
1995 GTS - $68,900



(* -20% for auto, +5% for pasha)

It's good to see these things finally being appreciated! What are your thoughts on what we've seen, and the forecast for the next few years?
Ghosteh is offline  
Old 10-05-2017, 01:53 PM
  #2  
XS29L9B
User
 
XS29L9B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South of The Mason Dixon Line
Posts: 908
Default

Prices are only what two people agree - and it's usually a buyer and seller.

But in the case of insurance, someone has to make a "guide" and run with the numbers. I think the 928 values are "climbing" primarily because everything else is... Not just air cooled cars, but ALL nice cars are climbing as interest rises, and fewer "good" examples exist.

BUT, I also think it's an artificial bubble to a large degree. The "graying" of America, which that demographic fueled most of the "car collection" hobby, is going to cash-out. I have a friend who's in his late 50s, just waiting to cash-in on the 75-85 year old sellers and the collections their wives/girlfriends/heirs don't want.
XS29L9B is offline  
Old 10-05-2017, 02:14 PM
  #3  
Vilhuer
Addict
Rennlist Member

 
Vilhuer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 9,278
Default

924, 928, 944 and 968 are catching up same period 911's. There is still some way to go until upward angle levels up. Some 928's can double in next decade. Condition is the key. Has to be all stock and very good driver at least.

A lot depends on general market situation in future. Ferrari's have been traditionally leaders and other makes have followed in tow. HAGI-F index was at peak about year ago and has come down few % since then. A lot depends also if there is other more profitable places for loose money to go to. If there is F-car downward trend might continue and start to pull other makes down also.

Classic car auctions will probably be first proper indication if anything major is going to happen. Most lots either reserve not meet and unsold or sold well under reserve and there can be small panic around to sell while still making healthy profit compared to 2010-2014 purchase prices when many cars were put away for profit. If prices start to slide down its better to take what market will still give and put $$$ somewhere else which gives better return than wait possibly for several years for eventual market recovery.

Next six months or year will tell if we'll see proper correction or if current level will hold. Very few believe there will be general major upward trend anytime soon. Meteoric raise was so fast that there simply isn't any more left. Some individual models yes but entire market no. Future is either bubble will burst or stagnation but not market rally.

Rumor is that some long time dealers who have been around since eighties and seen it all have cleared their own stock as much as possible and keep only customer cars in showrooms to protect themselves against collapse while maintaining normal appearance on the surface.
Vilhuer is offline  
Old 10-05-2017, 02:20 PM
  #4  
UNEEKONE
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
UNEEKONE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 1,709
Default

Originally Posted by XS29L9B View Post
Prices are only what two people agree - and it's usually a buyer and seller.

But in the case of insurance, someone has to make a "guide" and run with the numbers. I think the 928 values are "climbing" primarily because everything else is... Not just air cooled cars, but ALL nice cars are climbing as interest rises, and fewer "good" examples exist.

BUT, I also think it's an artificial bubble to a large degree. The "graying" of America, which that demographic fueled most of the "car collection" hobby, is going to cash-out. I have a friend who's in his late 50s, just waiting to cash-in on the 75-85 year old sellers and the collections their wives/girlfriends/heirs don't want.
I'm far from graying out. I'm in my mid-30s and would buy more cars if my wife wouldn't castrate me for it.

I think the cars that are going to significantly lose a lot of their value are the cars from the 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s. The majority of drivers today don't have any kind of emotional attachment or fond memories pertaining to those types of vehicles anymore. Any car guy or gal will always appreciate them for what they are but will never spend obscene amounts of money to buy one. But that's just my opinion.

I think we are good to go for a while on cars from the 70, 80, and 90s...
UNEEKONE is offline  
Old 10-05-2017, 04:51 PM
  #5  
Ninespub
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
Ninespub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Saginaw, MI
Posts: 1,359
Default

^^^^^ What he said. I have a very close friend who is REALLY big into 30's & 40's hot rods and 50's Classics......I mean like 35-40 of them, many "worth" $75K-$200K each. He's 80-ish and so are his friends. Every time the hearse goes by, he loses not just a friend, but a customer for his collection. He is also on a first-name basis with Chip Foose and the other Velocity TV car-stars and even he says that most of the auction $$$ and hype today is resto-mod, more so than classic restoration. We won't be immune to a financial calamity but I believe there is still some growth in value not only to the "pure' originals , but also the tastefully resto-modded 928s. By the way, I'm 70. I do not see my 928 as an investment, just a toy I've had for nearly 17 years; so I really don't give a rats-*** about value appreciation (although my heirs may someday).
Ninespub is offline  
Old 10-05-2017, 05:08 PM
  #6  
Weissach
User
 
Weissach's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 1,152
Default

Only 20% less for automatics? Well, first time I've seen this... Usually the manuals can sell for nearly double the price of an auto, very different buyers
Weissach is offline  
Old 10-05-2017, 05:10 PM
  #7  
XS29L9B
User
 
XS29L9B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South of The Mason Dixon Line
Posts: 908
Default

Originally Posted by UNEEKONE View Post
I'm far from graying out. I'm in my mid-30s and would buy more cars if my wife wouldn't castrate me for it.

I think the cars that are going to significantly lose a lot of their value are the cars from the 20s, 30s, 40s, and 50s. The majority of drivers today don't have any kind of emotional attachment or fond memories pertaining to those types of vehicles anymore. Any car guy or gal will always appreciate them for what they are but will never spend obscene amounts of money to buy one. But that's just my opinion.

I think we are good to go for a while on cars from the 70, 80, and 90s...

Actually, you kinda made my point. See, you are the one with the buying power - the original (or secondary) owners of the cars from the 70s, 80s, and 90s, are graying, in their 70s+. They will be cashing out.

Their kids don't care about the vehicles. Their wives don't care. And their girlfriends, independent of the wives, don't care either.

While 70s, 80s, and 90s cars and trucks are mostly lame, there are some gems, and they are the ones which will see the next jump. I do agree that vehicles from the 20s, 30,40s, and even the 50s, don't share a connection with people under 55-60. They might find them of interest, but not enough to own.

Anyways, I think we agree. Cheers.
XS29L9B is offline  
Old 10-05-2017, 05:35 PM
  #8  
GT6ixer
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
GT6ixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Seattle. WA
Posts: 2,906
Default

Interesting. I was inquiring with my State Farm agent about their classic car insurance for my 928. It turns out they also use Hagerty to determine valuation for their policies.

As an aside SF uses the follwing terminology:

Classic automobile: A motor vehicle ten or more years old, which is rare or of special historical interest because of exceptionally fine workmanship or limited production. A classic motor vehicle 25 years old or older is covered as an antique.

Antique automobile: A motor vehicle 25 years old or older


Cars from 1992 antique? C'mon State Farm. That is just bad branding.
GT6ixer is online now  
Old 10-05-2017, 06:14 PM
  #9  
jej3
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
jej3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Jacksonville and sometimes St. Aug Beach, FL
Posts: 1,225
Default

Classic or Antique car valuation ONLY matters at the time of selling or in the case of an "agreed value" policy. If you don't have an "Agreed Value" policy, I guarantee most insurers aren't going to come close to Hagerty's values.

I have had Hagerty for a number of years and they are happy for me to up the named value $2k-$5K/year.
jej3 is offline  
Old 10-05-2017, 06:15 PM
  #10  
Ghosteh
Addict
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
 
Ghosteh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Sugar Grove, IL
Posts: 724
Default

Originally Posted by Weissach View Post
Only 20% less for automatics? Well, first time I've seen this... Usually the manuals can sell for nearly double the price of an auto, very different buyers
I agree. And I think a pasha interior adds more than 5% in value. But that's just me.
Ghosteh is offline  
Old 10-05-2017, 07:08 PM
  #11  
chart928s4
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
chart928s4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 263
Default

From an accounting perspective the trend is very positive. Gross margin percentage is up 33%

Instead of a $20K car that's worth $10K, after much work I now have a $30K car that's worth $20K.
chart928s4 is offline  
Old 10-05-2017, 07:34 PM
  #12  
Range Rover
User
 
Range Rover's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Norfolk, VA
Posts: 703
Default

Originally Posted by Weissach View Post
Only 20% less for automatics? Well, first time I've seen this... Usually the manuals can sell for nearly double the price of an auto, very different buyers
It depends on the car, but I certainly wouldn't say it's double. This seems to be about right for the GTSs at least. For a GT vs an auto S4, I'd say it's probably closer to 30-40%, but that's mostly because the GT is a much rarer model than the S4.
Range Rover is offline  
Old 10-05-2017, 11:41 PM
  #13  
GT6ixer
Addict
Rennlist Member
 
GT6ixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Seattle. WA
Posts: 2,906
Default

^ I agree that the manuals go for a premium. However it is really tough to put a metric on that. So much depends on condition, year, colors, options, mileage, etc, that unless all the variables are identical it's difficult to attribute what aspect is bringing the money.

This may be about the closest comparison there has been recently. On BaT two separate 1987, black over black S4s were sold last year within a month from each other. One was an automatic and one was a manual. The auto had 54K miles and the manual had 41K, so pretty damn close to the same car except for transmission. And they were sold by the same seller even. The auto went for $36K and the manual for $41K. So that is a 14.6% hit for the auto. Seems to me that -20% for an auto is probably as good a number as any.

Manual
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1987-3/
Auto
https://bringatrailer.com/listing/19...sche-928-s4-3/
GT6ixer is online now  
 


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Hagerty valuation


Contact Us - About Us - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: