USairman

Hello Rennlist,
I recently purchased an 86 944 n/a and love it. Have already used the neck out of these forums and the forums at Pelican Parts. My timing belt snapped and my engine is screwed, so I figured I'd do an ls swap. Already got an ls1 for the swap, just wanting to know if there's any templates for fabbing conversion parts or anyone whom has any for sale? TPC is my backup plan, but I'd like to try and keep cost down so I can invest in a turbo trans. Thanks for any help in advance.

Lemming

http://944hybrids.forumotion.com classifieds is the best place to find used conversion parts.

V2Rocket

An ls swap only really makes sense if you really want one and have $5-10k to do it.

Fixing the head and timing belt will cost under $1000 if you can do the labor yourself and find a decent machine shop to fix the head.

USairman

Thanks for the replies, guys. I am doing all of the work myself and I got the engine, harness and ecu for 300. I think I can do the swap for 3k with New brakes and suspension. Thanks for the link Lemming. Stay tuned for a build thread if you guys are interested.

kevin12973

You will want to research your brake options. The booster will have to go to make room for the V8. There has been some that made a hydroboost work. But I think the most acceptable alternative has been Tilton dual master cylinder set up. Just simply pulling the booster and replacing the stock MC has poor performance.(mc volume to large)

arthropraxis

I use a DMC setup with a tilton balance bar and it works great. If I had to do it over again I would use the hydroboost with an adapter that uses the sock 951 master cylinder.
I agree with what was stated above. The only reason to do it is because you want to have one. I enjoyed building and driving mine. It has been my daily driver for the last four years.

Dougs951S

fixing the head is waaaaaay under 1k. buy a used one with straight valves and have it refreshed for cheap. my local machine shop will rebuild 944 heads for 150 bucks; that includes hot tanking, checking for flatness, removal and installation of 8 new valve guides, and grinding the seats and valves. 8 new valve guides costs ~55 dollars and valve stem seals are maybe 10 bucks for a box? Add in a head and cam tower gasket for 70 bucks and new belts for 30 bucks and the job is done for 450. You'll spend 10 to 20 times that at a minimum for a proper LS swap. I have an NA head with good valves ready for install, packed up and ready to go. PM me if you are interested.

tempest411

Lots of 944s meet their end as dead-in-the-water LS swaps from owners that grew disillusioned with the expense and work involved.

USairman

You guys know more than I do, I think I'll just try to fix my engine. I would like a little more power though, I just have read that it's super expensive to do a turbo swap.

odonnell

Cheaper than an LS swap. I built a 951 engine out of an early NA engine for way less than $5k. $350 for the engine, $80 to have all the parts cleaned, $120 for 951 pistons, $500 for oil pan, headers, manifold, throttle body, bellhousing, flywheel, clutch fork, water neck, and turbo mount (package deal). I paused the build because I got a 951 with the rest of the parts I would need, but otherwise I would still have needed a turbo itself (I have an HX35 but that's not really a bolt on) as well as a clutch assembly. Under $2k. Then you have to consider a ~$1000 rebuild kit, luckily the LR ones have basically everything you need, down to the Loctite 574. Also get a real transaxle, expect $500-800 for an open diff box.

You also need to think about how you're going to run it, spending the $ on 951 stuff (injectors/DME/KLR/AFM/harness/etc) is a huge waste of time, for ~$1000 you can get a standalone ECU like Megasquirt or VEMS. All in, still under a grand if you're smart about it.

I mentioned I bought a 951 with all the parts, right after I mentioned I bought all the parts. So I have doubles...I could cut you a hell of a deal if you're interested, guaranteed to be the cheapest 951 swap possible.

USairman

Odonnell,
What all would be included in the package deal, what else would I need to finish it and how much for your bundle deal?

odonnell

Clutch fork
Flywheel
Oil pan
Turbo mount
Headers
Manifold
Throttle body
TPS
Sinter-forged rods
Heat shield by brake booster
Any of the turbo water cooling parts you need, including turbo water pump
951 water pump (good used)
Water neck
Vacuum hardpipe assembly from under manifold
Recirc valve
Intercooler + hard pipes

I think I'm forgetting a few things but you get the idea. you would need to get a pressure plate, clutch disk, and throwout bearing to complete the clutch assembly (under $500 if you go with good used PP/TOB and a new disk, right about $500 for an all new uprated kit). Also pistons - I have 3x group 0 pistons, and 1x group 1 piston, FWIW. A used complete set is $100-150 normally. You can use an NA head with no issues, just don't go past 6500 unless you upgrade to stiffer valve springs.

That mechanically completes the engine. You would need to then figure out your engine management. I have a 951 DME & KLR (both have Autothority chips), a good 951 AFM, a cycling valve, and some other random parts if you wanted to fit the stock setup. I would still recommend a good standalone, though. Besides the trans you would also need exhaust and a turbo itself. Downpipe, crossover, wastegate, and the rest downstream.

I would talk to Luis (Larts Parts) about getting the rest of the parts, I think he'd be your best/cheapest bet...he'd be more than happy to interfere with LS swap plans I think as far as my pricing, shoot me a PM and we can work something out if your interest continues.

USairman

I'll keep you in mind. It might be a bit before I make my decision.

Jfrahm

Best thing is to fix your car, sell it, and buy a faster car. They make lots of faster cars. Even if you want to do an LS swap (and have $15 grand) it's better to start with a Turbo chassis. However if you'd be OK with 968 or 996 or Cayman S performance you can just buy one of those.

If you need 300HP and good handling under $10K there might be a few options, that is a bit harder. It's only sort-of possible with a swapped 944 if your time is worth nothing and if you are capable of the fab work to do that swap, your time ain't worth nothing let me tell ya.

-Joel.

Dougs951S

300 hp and good handling under 10k is easily doable with a 951 swap or buying a 951. I have spent plenty of time in Odonnell's garage and have seen his parts collection and can certify if you want to go boosted, buying his parts will be the absolute cheapest way; certainly cheaper than buying a good 951.

Caveat emptor, you'll also want to upgrade the suspension and brakes if you install a turbo engine. easiest way to do this is to get a coilover kit and some upgraded dampers for the front + rear shocks, and then get a set of 951 spindles/hubs/rotors/calipers. Cost of coilovers can vary widly and expect to pay 800-1k for all the parts to fit 951 4 piston brembo brakes all around. An additional 1k will get you better rear shocks and decent front coilovers, and in a few hundred more for upgraded sway bars and bushings.


so that's michaels' parts + 1k for suspension + 1k for brakes + 1k for engine management + 1k for wheels and tires (brembo brakes do not fit inside NA wheels and you'll want wide rubber to put the power down) + 750-1k for a turbo + 500 for clutch parts + 500 for exhaust parts + 500 to fix your head + 500-1k for a transmission.

thats a lot of money and a looooot of work, but after its done the car wouldnt even be in the same league as an NA 944.

a 996 is also a good 300 hp option with great factory brakes and handling, but they are a bit out of the 10k price bracket and can be maintanence nightmares; and in my honest opinion a 951 is the superior car.