Ag951

If you're referring to word processors and spreadsheets, OpenOffice.orgOpenOffice.org can read and write more formats than any other office suite (and it doesn't spy on the user, or cost $500+).
MS Office doesn't read or write any of the formats used by other office suites. Hell, the older versions can't even read files written by the newer ones. Not exactly a "standard".

mouse

Yeah, well perhaps you should realize that YOUR needs and MY needs are two totally different things.

mouse

Hehe I'm not referring to e-mail clients and word processors. If that's all you need from your machine, all power to you in Linux.

SidViscous

Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't, and your right about Word. But heres the deal. i've used loads of office suites for BeOS, Linux, Solaris, as well as Windows. And they've all been crap. So I'm in no rush to change.

Micro$oft software costs money? Really? I hadn't noticed.

Ag951

Most of them aren't any crappier than MS office. OpenOffice is actually better for the things I use it for. And it can export postscript and pdf files without a costly plugin. A definite plus in my view!

That makes you a felon. I'd rather use something good that's free than risk prison and fines to use crap. Most of their software has secret backdoors and tracking technology built into it: every file in MS's "doc" format stores information about every machine used to save it, including licensing info, user info, etc., so if they get their hands on one of your files, they can tell if you're violating their license. The latest windows has similar features.
Just beacuse the software isn't worth paying for, doesn't make it right to steal it.

mouse

Interesting how a thread that was started to help people identify and fix a common problem turns into an OS battle so quickly.

SidViscous

Yeah. and they'll be hunting me down, I'mmmmmmmm so worried.

How are they going to tell it's unlicensed? You have to put in a legal license to load it.

And if it wasn't for the pain in the *** licensing I would pay for it, crap or not. Not what they charge though.

Quite frankly I can't feel sorry for stealing from a company that made it's owner the Richest man in the world ina decade. A title that he has to compete against the heads of Nations for. And it's hard to get richer than a nation, talk about criminals.

No I don't feel bad stealing from a criminal lik BG.

Ag951

The BSA goes after thousands of individuals per year. With future versions, they won't have to go after you, the computer will turn you in.

Obviously not, you didn't "put in a legal license". I believe you mean activation key. Every true activation key is tied to a license. You probably used an artificial key. That makes it obvious. Even if you used a true key, that key is tied to a specific computer. If yours isn't the correct one, you're busted.

Nice straw man/non sequitor combo. You're not stealing because billg is successful, which means he's a criminal.
Would that make me justified in stealing from you because you're an admitted felon (with no remorse I might add)?

SidViscous

The BSA is a loard of ****. Ignoring does well for them. And writing for a popular IT website, threats don't mean much to me.

How is that obvious. Yes I did put in a real activation key. And all the other stuff is wrong because your assuming I'm stealing some crap like XP or ME. Which I'm not.

No. I'm saying Bill G is a criminal because other people, Like the department of justice say he's a criminal.

I' consult for a software firm. I know how important software is and how hard software is to write. My best friend is an OS developer for HP, I understand the industry.

You say I'm a criminal, I say Bill G is no different than the railroad companies of the last century and early part of this century. I have no problem with companies, and individuals that own companies to make a profit. But when the software costs more than all the hardware combined, (for a mass market computer, I understand the costs of specialized, or industry specefic software) yet it's production costs are just a fraction of any of the hardware I start to wonder about the markup.

I also wonder about business practices that force manufacturers to pay for a license for software on computers that don't come with the software.

"You sold a computer, pay me for 1 license seat"
"But your software isn't on it"
"I don't care, pay me anyways"

If their pricing was more in line with normal costs I wouldn't even imagine playing silly buggers with them. Your talking about a guy who goes back when I get an extra 5 in my change. Who contributes money on freeware/shareware if it's decent and I use it. Who even when I was living on the street wouldn't steal a sandwich.

Sorry. There is no way in hell your going to make me feel sorry for the richest man in the world. 7-11 understands that some stock is going to go missing, it's called pillferage. Bill G understood the same thing. But where 7 -11 marks stuff up 3% to make up for it, Bill marks it up 5000%.

You'll also notice I paid for my Rennlist membership. I don't have to right? I can come in here as a user and use this service for no charge. But still I pay. And to be honest I think the yearly membership fee is too little, should be much more, and I'd pay that too.

Cyrus951

I've recovered from it so far..

Chris_924s

I was trying to help some of the unfortunates.. not start a pissing match.

and BTW- you can easily hack an invalid license number into a valid one when you call Microsoft and PAY for the software. They will show you exactly which registry entry to change to verify validity.

Use pirated software expect to get burnt. I use Linux because it's robust and it's virtually free. I use Mr. Softie's stuff because it pay's my salary.

Water944t

Actually, the notion that Linix is inherently more secure than MS/OS is simply not true.

As an avid reader of /., I have found that many people are under the misconception that their woohoo-yippee-skippy free Linux protects them from virus and intrusion. Simply not true guys.

I am not defending Big Bill or his software, or Linus and his, they both suffer from the same problem in my eyes, they both rely on the user to be competent enough to proactively patch and update individual software installations.

If you are more interested, you can read some of the following threads from /. (Thats www.slashdot.org for those of you who dodnt know)

http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl...id=188&tid=192

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=0...tid=172&tid=95

The fact that books exist with titles such as "Hacking Linux" should be your first big 'Ahah!' moment.

Bottom line...update your ****, and work towards understanding the mechanisms that allow infestation. Like, for instance, get rid of Kazaa and similar crap. Never run anything from Gator, or other spyware companies. Learn Linux, but learn that it is only as safe as you make it.

SidViscous

You know me Chris. My original line was a throw away (I actually paid for the first license, but I'll be damned if when I buy more hardware to replace old hardware I'm going to pay for another license, specially when I end up paying for extra licenses on software I already own because of emergencies) But to be called a felon when the guy I'm working around an $85 fee for, is a guy who has 7,547,170% (that's 7.5 million percent more, since you don't usually see percentage with that kind of number) more than I make in a year.

Just so you know, I had to shift 5 decimal places just to figure out how much more he has than me on a calculator. And I estimated low.

Ag951

You can't ignore them if they sue.

You said you didn't pay for MS software. All of their non-OS products require one of their OSs to run (except for some MacOS ports). Were you lying then?

Nobody in DOJ called him a criminal. They accused his company of violating the Sherman Act, which is a civil suit, not a criminal one.

Software is actually quite easy to write.
Does HP produce any OSs? HP-UX is dead, Monterrey is dead. Yeesh, I'd rather be at SGI.

Did that justify people stealing rides on trains? No crime justifies another. If you don't like something, why help perpetuate it? You're probably billg's favorite type of person: the type that dislikes his company and their products, but still helps maintain their stranglehold on the market.
Actually, MS's software costs more to make than they sell it for. MS hasn't made money in years. They have a very interesting pyramid scheme going. They save money by giving their employees stock as payment. Saving money boosts the stock, so they don't have to pay their people as much cash...great strategy...as long as the company can expand at 20% or more a year. But if it drops below that (which should be 2005 or so), they're screwed. They also underreport income in certain quarters so they can overreport in others (the SEC was investigating them for that, but President Dubya stopped it).
There's a paper floating around on the 'net somewhere about it. I'm not capable of doing his economic analysis justice.

Sucks, huh? Those companies should use other software then. In a free market, bullies only survive as long as the companies they prey on let them.
I don't buy computers from companies like that.

You deserve a medal! What if it was billg's sandwich? He's rich, it's okay to steal from him, right?

So because 7-11 doesn't make as much money, it's not okay to steal from them? I'd like to know where that 5000% number comes from. That would mean a product that costs $200 at a store (about $100 after retail markup and distribution) is worth $2. Minus the CD cost, packaging, the manual, box design...etc. I didn't know it cost 75c to produce an OS. I figured it would cost at least $1.25.

So if you are offered something free, but can pay for it, you will, but if there's no free version you steal it?
I pay for rennlist too, but before I started paying, I made sure the site ran on Free/Open Source Software (Mandrake GNU/Linux and Apache--not my first choice in an OS, but much better than windows or macOS), because I won't help billg maintain control.

led

I really don't want to add more fuel to the fire but I can't help it...
So before you buy anything at all you make sure the company offering the product doesn't use any MS product? What's the big deal? You have a choice, you either use the software or don't. If you don't, then why criticize every other person that does?