SirLapsalot

OK, so I would like the advice of experienced body guys or collision repair experts. I have an '88 with some pretty bad looking frame damage that I would like to fix.

Some background:
I bought the car from a friend who owns a small business buying wrecked cars and fixing them up to sell. He bought the car at an auction to be his personal project then it sat in his garage for a while before he started traveling and became too busy to start on it. I recently bought the car from him.

The Car:
It is what looks to be a true low mileage car with 79,000 miles. Looks to be in very good mechanical shape. It was in some type of front end collision and both frame rails are bent pretty bad and core support is pretty mangled. It will need the hood, fenders, header panel and bumper replaced which I have all of. Also an entire front clip from a donor car was supplied with the purchase of the car. By front clip I mean the structural part of the unibody from the back of the suspension towers forward.

The type of repair dilemma:
The friend I bought it from seems to be partial to cutting and welding front clips on rather than taking cars to someone with a frame rack. He seems to have good experience with this but I have never done this before. My first instinct is to take a car to a frame shop and have it pulled straight but in this case I am already supplied with a front clip and think I could be a fun challenge. I have already made up my mind I will be fixing the car and putting it to exclusive track use. It will not be a street car. My problem is I can't seem to find any information on cutting a welding a front end on a car. There are lots of posts on here about people taking cars to frame shops but I would rather avoid that. Apparently you need special tie downs, or jigs, or whatever to grab onto these cars and the only place nearby with this ability is about an hour away.

My question:
Are there any tips or trade secrets to properly cutting and welding a unibody car? The frame is buckled right up in front of the suspension tower on the right side and a few inches in front of the left side. I know it is pretty much a write-off if the car gets bent past the suspension towers but it looks like the damage stayed in front. Is it recommended to get a car pulled first then cut and weld or not necessary? No matter what the radiator support and various pieces in the very front will need to be cut out and new pieces welded in because it is pretty mangled up there. Also I have an uncle nearby that was a welder all his life so I have access to good equipment and ability so that will not be an issue.

SirLapsalot

Pictures of frame:

V2Rocket

been there, done that. i cut mine right at the plane of the shock tower where it is perpendicular to the frame rail and welded new stuff in.

got a C shaped piece made for each side and a fourth side to make a box - butt welded the C to the old rail and added some bracing on the inside. put all the right holes and stuff in the new rail (swaybar, etc) and then welded on the fourth side.

probably easier for you to just find a 944 front clip and weld it up, i suggest doing the internal bracing at the joint though (cut a hole in the new rail to get inside beads)

SirLapsalot

I do in fact have a 944 front clip. It came with the car. Are you saying butt weld and cut a hole or box on the side of the new rail and weld from the inside so the beads are inside and hidden? You would end up with beads when you weld the material you took out for the hole or box anyway right? So is there there a reason for cutting a hole and welding from the inside other than for cosmetic reasons? Am I understanding correctly?

Edit: Are you saying do bracing and do it internally which is the reason for cutting the hole and welding on the inside? Is bracing necessary?

dillon410021

put a piece of metal inside the frame rail with some sticking out, weld that in. drill small holes in both new and old side, and weld it together.

SirLapsalot

That's along the lines of what I was thinking thanks for the advice!

black944 turbo

You need to correctly do this repair especially for a track car. This means you should go back to the factory welds on the rail and seperate it there. More than likely they will be squeeze type spot welds. Drill them out and section in the the new rail as mentioned above.

I don't see that the rails are kinked from the above pictures (90 degree bend folding on itself) These rails may be repairable and this would DEFFINETELY be the best way to fix it. If it is repairable take it to a good body shop with good frame equipment.

SirLapsalot

Of course I need to correctly do this repair that is why I am asking. You don't see where the rails are damaged??? For what reasons do you say taking it to a repair shop to have it pulled is definitely the best way to fix it?

black944 turbo

You misunderstood. I certainily see the damage, however I don't see that they are kinked (means metal folded on itself). I said if the rail is repairable, pulling would be the best repair (least invasive).

SirLapsalot

OK yea I misunderstood, thought you were saying you didn't see any damage. No the rails are not kinked, I never used that word and the metal is not folded onto itself it would have to bend 180 degrees to do that! I said it has buckled, maybe that is not the correct term and I should have taken better pictures. But if you look right in front of the right frame rail and a few inches in front of the left rail you can see where it buckled. I agree pulling would be the least invasive. But because it is less invasive does not necessarily make it the better repair. Do you have any reason to say it is better? I'm really just looking for objective advice not subjective. One way might be better in terms of structural characteristics and another just preferred because it is easier. Like I said my first instinct is to go to a professional with a frame rack probably because that is what I have always seen done but doesn't the metal become weaker once its been bent? If so cutting and welding sounds like the better repair.

black944 turbo

Every manufacturer has there own guides on what can and can not be repaired. Industry standard is that if it is not "kinked" than it can be safely and affectively repaired. It depends on the severity and where it is damaged. I would take it to a body shop and have it checked on a frame machine. As I said before it would be a better repair if it can be fixed (this means the metal is not damaged to the point where the structural integraty is damaged). Pictures can lie. So again get it checked before cutting the nose off.

xsboost90

this whole thing seems alittle scary. Take it to a shop and have the frame rails pulled straight. Then weld in the new core support.

mopar bob

I will second on taking to a frame shop. They do this day in and day out. They can pull it out and do a front end alignment so the car will track correctly and not wipout tires.

Bob

SirLapsalot

I can do the alignment myself and everything else other than pulling the frame. The car came with a front clip so I thought I'd ask if anyone has done it that way. I don't find it scary however I see that the easiest and most conventional way is to take it to a shop that pulls frames all day everyday and knows exactly what they are doing. The whole point was just to see if I could easily avoid taking it to a frame shop. I don't have the factory crash manuals but I just wonder if Porsche would ever recommend separating at spot welds, and seams then welding in a piece rather than pulling. I'm not convinced pulling is the best way to fix a bent frame but I just have a skeptic nature sometimes, not that I don't trust or appreciate the advice and opinions. I just like to know why.

xsboost90

my dad was a frame and body man for over 20 years and i worked there in college. I would take a pulled frame over a spliced frame any day.