Spy from Peach/Pelican looking to be Renn freak...
08-03-2012, 01:41 AM
#17
You've really been doing some cleaning!
Those look like late-offset wheels to me (1987 and later). If you were to find some pre-'87 wheels, they would really fill out the wheel wells. Two popular examples are 'cookie cutters' and the uber-desireable Fuchs, though that phone dial style was also offered in early offset.
Those look like late-offset wheels to me (1987 and later). If you were to find some pre-'87 wheels, they would really fill out the wheel wells. Two popular examples are 'cookie cutters' and the uber-desireable Fuchs, though that phone dial style was also offered in early offset.
08-03-2012, 11:30 AM
#18
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
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try not to hate me even more....
nice car. welcome to Rennlist.
i actually would love to agree with you. and i can somewhat. but the part bolded in black could be said about a good number of cars. sorry. it's very misleading, and contradictory.... and a very poor way to measure a car.
i have a good friend who can fix SAABs, Lotus,' Range Rovers and Jaguars and in his own case, he could say the very exact same thing about these cars, because he can wrench them all.... in the case of the SAABs and RR's, there's plenty of used parts around too.... doesn't mean anyone without deep pockets shouldn't own one. and it doesn't mean that they should. the same can be said of the Jaguar E-types and the 944s. it's a passion that is worth it to some. and galactically stupid to others....
i'm willing to bet my 968, that if you did a scientific study of every 944 that has had a series of expensive repairs followed by either a no-start that stumped the owner and his neighborhood mechanic, a blown head-gasket, clutch, or bad timing belt, you'd discover that thousands (not hundreds) of 944s have ended right there, with absolutely no interest coming from anywhere to go any further to repair the car.
around here, people are too busy going to Pats games (the Red Sox, gulp), skiiing, drinking beer Cape Cod, Hampton Beach, NH or, Newport, RI, deep-sea fishing, playing lacrosse, surfing and doing all other kinds real activities that seem far more important. especially for an old beat up car that wouldn't last 2 winters here. i haven't seen a 944 on the road in New England since the late 1990s.
but, you go out to the mid-west, and an old broken down 944 is like, the greastest thing evarr.
about 3 years ago, i bore personal witness to a Porsche rep from Germany talking at one of the large shops in my area (making the rounds before the Lime Rock event).... the conversation had turned to the subject of the 944 (one happened to be up on a lift getting the brakes done for a track event).... he got to explaining that the 944 had been rushed into production.... that it was one of the 'worst cars ever built....' he didn't even try to attempt to hide his embarrassment. i was shocked to hear a guy from the company stating this opinion.... at this point one of the techs mentioned that one of the selling points to the dealers back in the 1980s was that 'even if they couldn't sell a flagship car, but instead sold a 944, would recoup much of the lost revenue in the service bay....' overhearing that conversation really made an impression that you see reflected in hundreds of my posts over the years. the costs of keeping 944s on the road are extremely well documented.... but we don't get to talk to the people who've crunched numbers.
The sad truth is that it's not the cars that the shops don't want to work on, it's the customers that these front engined cars bring with them. Myself being a porsche tech for over 20yrs(factory/dealership/motorsports).... Do keep in mind though, that a 944 or any varient is one of the most expensive cars you can own, certainly one of the most expensive Porsches.
i've had a 944 a 928 and a 968. the only ****box of the 3 was the 928. every car and everyone's personal experience is different. i had an almost new 944 in 1990 with 17k miles... and drove it everywhere for four years. i changed the oil, a fan-relay and put on some used tires. i never once changed the timing belt or H20 pump. (i drove it 99K miles before blowing it up due to my own stupidity in not getting after an oil leak). i guess it's safe to say that the day i blew it up, the car was ready for major service. but, it never had any electrical gremlins, no-starts. nothing. so, obviously, i had a spectacular car.
sometimes i wonder, if other people have treated their 944s as badly as i did.... and got away with it.
i was gonna fix that oil leak, but i think i spent the money on a surf trip to Baja instead.
.
i actually would love to agree with you. and i can somewhat. but the part bolded in black could be said about a good number of cars. sorry. it's very misleading, and contradictory.... and a very poor way to measure a car.
i have a good friend who can fix SAABs, Lotus,' Range Rovers and Jaguars and in his own case, he could say the very exact same thing about these cars, because he can wrench them all.... in the case of the SAABs and RR's, there's plenty of used parts around too.... doesn't mean anyone without deep pockets shouldn't own one. and it doesn't mean that they should. the same can be said of the Jaguar E-types and the 944s. it's a passion that is worth it to some. and galactically stupid to others....
i'm willing to bet my 968, that if you did a scientific study of every 944 that has had a series of expensive repairs followed by either a no-start that stumped the owner and his neighborhood mechanic, a blown head-gasket, clutch, or bad timing belt, you'd discover that thousands (not hundreds) of 944s have ended right there, with absolutely no interest coming from anywhere to go any further to repair the car.
around here, people are too busy going to Pats games (the Red Sox, gulp), skiiing, drinking beer Cape Cod, Hampton Beach, NH or, Newport, RI, deep-sea fishing, playing lacrosse, surfing and doing all other kinds real activities that seem far more important. especially for an old beat up car that wouldn't last 2 winters here. i haven't seen a 944 on the road in New England since the late 1990s.
but, you go out to the mid-west, and an old broken down 944 is like, the greastest thing evarr.
about 3 years ago, i bore personal witness to a Porsche rep from Germany talking at one of the large shops in my area (making the rounds before the Lime Rock event).... the conversation had turned to the subject of the 944 (one happened to be up on a lift getting the brakes done for a track event).... he got to explaining that the 944 had been rushed into production.... that it was one of the 'worst cars ever built....' he didn't even try to attempt to hide his embarrassment. i was shocked to hear a guy from the company stating this opinion.... at this point one of the techs mentioned that one of the selling points to the dealers back in the 1980s was that 'even if they couldn't sell a flagship car, but instead sold a 944, would recoup much of the lost revenue in the service bay....' overhearing that conversation really made an impression that you see reflected in hundreds of my posts over the years. the costs of keeping 944s on the road are extremely well documented.... but we don't get to talk to the people who've crunched numbers.
The sad truth is that it's not the cars that the shops don't want to work on, it's the customers that these front engined cars bring with them. Myself being a porsche tech for over 20yrs(factory/dealership/motorsports).... Do keep in mind though, that a 944 or any varient is one of the most expensive cars you can own, certainly one of the most expensive Porsches.
i've had a 944 a 928 and a 968. the only ****box of the 3 was the 928. every car and everyone's personal experience is different. i had an almost new 944 in 1990 with 17k miles... and drove it everywhere for four years. i changed the oil, a fan-relay and put on some used tires. i never once changed the timing belt or H20 pump. (i drove it 99K miles before blowing it up due to my own stupidity in not getting after an oil leak). i guess it's safe to say that the day i blew it up, the car was ready for major service. but, it never had any electrical gremlins, no-starts. nothing. so, obviously, i had a spectacular car.
sometimes i wonder, if other people have treated their 944s as badly as i did.... and got away with it.
i was gonna fix that oil leak, but i think i spent the money on a surf trip to Baja instead.
.
Last edited by odurandina; 08-03-2012 at 03:28 PM.
08-03-2012, 12:36 PM
#19
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
around here, people are too busy going to Pats games (the Red Sox, gulp), skiiing, drinking beer Cape Cod, Hampton Beach, NH or, Newport, RI, deep-sea fishing, playing lacrosse, surfing and doing all other kinds real activities that seem far more important. especially for an old beat up car that wouldn't last 2 winters here. i haven't seen a 944 on the road in New England since the late 1990s.
but, you go out to the mid-west, and an old broken down 944 is like, the greastest thing evarr.
about 3 years ago, i bore personal witness to a Porsche rep from Germany talking at one of the large shops in my area (making the rounds before the Lime Rock event).... the conversation had turned to the subject of the 944 (one happened to be up on a lift getting the brakes done for a track event).... he got to explaining that the 944 had been rushed into production.... that it was one of the 'worst cars ever built....' he didn't even try to attempt to hide his embarrassment. i was shocked to hear a guy from the company stating this opinion.... at this point one of the techs mentioned that one of the selling points to the dealers back in the 1980s was that 'even if they couldn't sell a flagship car, but instead sold a 944, would recoup much of the lost revenue in the service bay....' overhearing that conversation really made an impression that you see reflected in hundreds of my posts over the years. the costs of keeping 944s on the road are extremely well documented.... but we don't get to talk to the people who've crunched numbers.
i've had a 944 a 928 and a 968. the only ****box of the 3 was the 928. every car and everyone's personal experience is different. i had an almost new 944 in 1990 with 17k miles... and drove it everywhere for four years. i changed the oil, a fan-relay and put on some used tires. i never once changed the timing belt or H20 pump. (i drove it 99K miles before blowing it up due to my own stupidity in not getting after an oil leak). i guess it's safe to say that the day i blew it up, the car was ready for major service. but, it never had any electrical gremlins, no-starts. nothing. so, obviously, i had a spectacular car.
sometimes i wonder, if other people have treated their 944s as badly as i did.... and got away with it.
i was gonna fix that oil leak, but i think i spent the money on a surf trip to Baja instead.
.
but, you go out to the mid-west, and an old broken down 944 is like, the greastest thing evarr.
about 3 years ago, i bore personal witness to a Porsche rep from Germany talking at one of the large shops in my area (making the rounds before the Lime Rock event).... the conversation had turned to the subject of the 944 (one happened to be up on a lift getting the brakes done for a track event).... he got to explaining that the 944 had been rushed into production.... that it was one of the 'worst cars ever built....' he didn't even try to attempt to hide his embarrassment. i was shocked to hear a guy from the company stating this opinion.... at this point one of the techs mentioned that one of the selling points to the dealers back in the 1980s was that 'even if they couldn't sell a flagship car, but instead sold a 944, would recoup much of the lost revenue in the service bay....' overhearing that conversation really made an impression that you see reflected in hundreds of my posts over the years. the costs of keeping 944s on the road are extremely well documented.... but we don't get to talk to the people who've crunched numbers.
i've had a 944 a 928 and a 968. the only ****box of the 3 was the 928. every car and everyone's personal experience is different. i had an almost new 944 in 1990 with 17k miles... and drove it everywhere for four years. i changed the oil, a fan-relay and put on some used tires. i never once changed the timing belt or H20 pump. (i drove it 99K miles before blowing it up due to my own stupidity in not getting after an oil leak). i guess it's safe to say that the day i blew it up, the car was ready for major service. but, it never had any electrical gremlins, no-starts. nothing. so, obviously, i had a spectacular car.
sometimes i wonder, if other people have treated their 944s as badly as i did.... and got away with it.
i was gonna fix that oil leak, but i think i spent the money on a surf trip to Baja instead.
.
There are several members here from New England with 944's...many whom I've met....a few as recently as a month ago.
You have interesting perspectives.
08-03-2012, 01:42 PM
#20
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
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people drive recently built cars in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts....
my post was definitely somewhat of a rant.... but, trying to fix it (and i'm not sure i really can)....
first, the cars aren't complete junk, because, the core engines and transmissions are good...
and they handle great. (ok—but, there' lots of cars that can do that now).
but to say 'you'll be fine (if you wrench 'em)' doesn't tell the whole story. because of the no-starts that aren't solved without finally hauling the car to a very experienced tech, or a 2 thousand dollar clutch.... or head gasket repairs (no i'm not fixing a f_cking head gasket on a Porsche.... call me en effin' tool, but it ain't happenin')....
secondly, (their very existence) is shunned by Porsche.... and no, it's not a myth. it's not your imagination. it's a fact...... and the cars are known by plenty of people in the automotive world to fall anywhere between pricey to catastrophic (turbos) on maintenance. it is what it is. we work hard, we earn good money and we pay people to do it, because we have ski areas and and the beach and surfing, and tailgating (lobster) YES WE'RE MOSTLY A BUNCH OF EFFING SNOBS.... we wash and wax our cars, but overall most people aren't gonna be wrenching semi-exotic, German cars.... but i've been the first to offer to the newbies; 'if you get creative (buy a parts car ASAP). do that and you've won half the battle.'
finally, i had a good one. but i treated it like a throwaway car. my feeling is—maybe, a bunch of people did with theirs too (especially with second generation of owners. ).... when 944s sit, half the engine bay goes to ****, and you add that to an already upside down car, at least, here in New England, you're left with very few people that would even bother... the cars had their time as daily drivers. but when the SUV's became the driver of choice, the 944s were soon discarded and forgotten. now, you'd be very lucky to see one here. btw; has anyone ever really crunched numbers to determine what % of all the original 944s in the U.S. are owned by people who post here ?
go ask people in Massachusetts (who know at least a little bit about cars)
about if they'd ever consider owning a 944.... and they'll look at you like you're a martian.
why, when virtually any car seller will put you behind the wheel of a well sorted, Audi TT or Beemer ?
.
first, the cars aren't complete junk, because, the core engines and transmissions are good...
and they handle great. (ok—but, there' lots of cars that can do that now).
but to say 'you'll be fine (if you wrench 'em)' doesn't tell the whole story. because of the no-starts that aren't solved without finally hauling the car to a very experienced tech, or a 2 thousand dollar clutch.... or head gasket repairs (no i'm not fixing a f_cking head gasket on a Porsche.... call me en effin' tool, but it ain't happenin')....
secondly, (their very existence) is shunned by Porsche.... and no, it's not a myth. it's not your imagination. it's a fact...... and the cars are known by plenty of people in the automotive world to fall anywhere between pricey to catastrophic (turbos) on maintenance. it is what it is. we work hard, we earn good money and we pay people to do it, because we have ski areas and and the beach and surfing, and tailgating (lobster) YES WE'RE MOSTLY A BUNCH OF EFFING SNOBS.... we wash and wax our cars, but overall most people aren't gonna be wrenching semi-exotic, German cars.... but i've been the first to offer to the newbies; 'if you get creative (buy a parts car ASAP). do that and you've won half the battle.'
finally, i had a good one. but i treated it like a throwaway car. my feeling is—maybe, a bunch of people did with theirs too (especially with second generation of owners. ).... when 944s sit, half the engine bay goes to ****, and you add that to an already upside down car, at least, here in New England, you're left with very few people that would even bother... the cars had their time as daily drivers. but when the SUV's became the driver of choice, the 944s were soon discarded and forgotten. now, you'd be very lucky to see one here. btw; has anyone ever really crunched numbers to determine what % of all the original 944s in the U.S. are owned by people who post here ?
go ask people in Massachusetts (who know at least a little bit about cars)
about if they'd ever consider owning a 944.... and they'll look at you like you're a martian.
why, when virtually any car seller will put you behind the wheel of a well sorted, Audi TT or Beemer ?
.
Last edited by odurandina; 08-03-2012 at 03:57 PM.
08-03-2012, 05:31 PM
#21
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Still not sure I follow but here's my 2 cents....
Once a 944 or 968 is made current on all of its maintenance, and provided it is not then just put in storage.....it IS very reliable.
My experience is specific to the S2....(I did not have or use my early car long enough to know)....so results for Turbo's may vary.
From a purely economic standpoint, a 944/968 is becoming an increasingly poorer investment....with the 968 fairing better than it's earlier brothers. However alot depends upon your viewpoint.
I can go buy a boxster tomorrow for $15k....and probably have a boxster that needs at least $5k of work to be as up-to-date on maintenance and repairs as my S2....so than I am in for $20k....and I have a later model, more advanced, more expensive to maintain/repair, better handling Porsche than my S2.
I paid $5k for my S2 and in the roughly 7 years I've owned it...I am into it for about another $15k....or $2143/year. If I were to chart that, the first 4 years were heavy on cost and the last 3 have been very inexpensive (hear me knocking wood??). I suspect that the longer I keep it...the lower my annual cost to maintain will become.
So I was able to have a minimal annual outlay (made my wife very happy) and have a great car.
Now I suspect that the cost to keep and use a boxster the way I've used the S2 (weekend car, road tripper, a few DE's every year) is not ZERO over 7 years....so let's say it's 1/2 of what I spent on the S2.
In the end, after 7 years....I know I won't have a positive yield on my investment....but I doubt the equivalent boxster (or TT or BMW) would either.
AND.....I know I have a better handling car than most TT's.....
I think you paint a highly pesemistic picture of our cars...almost all the time.....infact I am left wondering why you own one.
Once a 944 or 968 is made current on all of its maintenance, and provided it is not then just put in storage.....it IS very reliable.
My experience is specific to the S2....(I did not have or use my early car long enough to know)....so results for Turbo's may vary.
From a purely economic standpoint, a 944/968 is becoming an increasingly poorer investment....with the 968 fairing better than it's earlier brothers. However alot depends upon your viewpoint.
I can go buy a boxster tomorrow for $15k....and probably have a boxster that needs at least $5k of work to be as up-to-date on maintenance and repairs as my S2....so than I am in for $20k....and I have a later model, more advanced, more expensive to maintain/repair, better handling Porsche than my S2.
I paid $5k for my S2 and in the roughly 7 years I've owned it...I am into it for about another $15k....or $2143/year. If I were to chart that, the first 4 years were heavy on cost and the last 3 have been very inexpensive (hear me knocking wood??). I suspect that the longer I keep it...the lower my annual cost to maintain will become.
So I was able to have a minimal annual outlay (made my wife very happy) and have a great car.
Now I suspect that the cost to keep and use a boxster the way I've used the S2 (weekend car, road tripper, a few DE's every year) is not ZERO over 7 years....so let's say it's 1/2 of what I spent on the S2.
In the end, after 7 years....I know I won't have a positive yield on my investment....but I doubt the equivalent boxster (or TT or BMW) would either.
AND.....I know I have a better handling car than most TT's.....
I think you paint a highly pesemistic picture of our cars...almost all the time.....infact I am left wondering why you own one.
08-03-2012, 09:40 PM
#22
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
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mas, mas, mas por tu plata bb..........
968 prices are up. way up. putting them no more upside down than your average 964 !!
i know, i can hardly believe it myself, but just go visit Cars.com or Autotrader.....
they're definitely in the 'pricey' category on maintenance, but their reliability is extremely predictable, and by all appearances, considerably better than the 944. but we've been through this a million times. not to mention 80~90 more hp (in the juice is worth the squeeze context)... basically, like a semi-exotic version of a Honda once they get what they need. *there's very, very few out-of-left-field repairs with the 968.
one exception is the power steering system—every bit as awful as the 944.
