bad_monkey

Golf MK1 - same control arms, same bushing?

Edit: ah, sorry - you guys have the late arms. My bad.

s14kev

A fellow 'lister contacted me about how these bushings have been holding up this week so I thought I would post an update. It's about a year since I installed them and although the car is a weekend only toy, the bushings are holding up great.

By maintaining the factory metal sleeve and end pieces, these bushings are well protected and are not getting cut up by the edges of the arms and mounting points like the weltmeister urethane bushings do. I just happen to have the car up on stands again to swap out the engine mounts for some CEP semi solid mounts so I thought I would snap some pics to show how they look a year later.

The grease is super sticky and they seem to have stayed well lubed with no squeaking or noise. The car otherwise runs solid suspension mounts front and rear (monoball caster blocks at the rear of the control arms and monoball upper strut mounts) with bilstein coilovers. The walrod bushings are really the only urethane bushings on the car. Everything else is solid.

On the alignment machine, I am running 2.6 degrees of caster on the left and 2.9 degrees on the right and the control arm moves smoothly without binding. Overall, I see no reason to run anything other than Chris' urethane bushings in this location. I would certainly recommend anyone try them as an affordable alternative to monoballs. In a way, some would consider them superior to monoballs given the lack of maintenance and care required after install.

cpcca

I should have started here...again! I've been envious of all the rave reviews in the 993 pages of Chris Walrods bushings. Today I emailed FD Motorsports (they sell the Chris Walrod 993 bushing kit) asking if they had ever tried to fit them on a 951. His response:

Hey Chris

Thanks for contacting us

I am not aware of anyone trying the forward bushing on a 951...
I wasn't aware they were similar or even the same. Interesting

We could certainly compare dimensions
I just assembled a couple of sets of 993 control arms today and don't have a
blank set right now to get exact measurements.
These are pretty close:
Approx. OD of the bushing (installed)- 49.7mm
Approx. ID of the bushing (installed)- 22.1

Then we'd need to check into sourcing the front bushings alone and get
pricing.


Mark
FD Motorsports - The Enthusiast's Choice

So Kevin thanks to all your work and effort I now have the answer! To be fair to Mark and FD Motorsports they are not 944 specialists so would have no reason to know about this application. I'll tell Mark the good news with a link to this fantastic thread. THANK YOU KEVIN (s14kev) AND CHRIS. Can't wait to get them!

Rennlist is the BEST!
Thanks all
Chris

Arominus

Hmm, didn't know there was another retailer for these. I contacted Mr walrod last week and he didn't want to sell me a set for my 944.

cpcca

I sent Chris an email yesterday asking if I could order them.I haven't heard back yet. Did he say why he wouldn't sell them ? Seems like a good business opportunity to expand his market into the 944 community. Unless there are pre-existing business arrangements? I'll wait and see what he says. I hope we can work something out.
Thanks for the feedback
Chris

mblaszak

I'm still at a loss.... if you put a spherical bearing caster block on the car, why would you only go half way on the job and leave a plastic front bushing?? Do it right and put a spherical bearing cartridge at the front of the control arm too, plastic has a tendancy to just split when running the full amount of caster that you are looking for.

As always YMMV

Arominus

It was because he wasn't sure they would work properly, so he was holding off on it. He's a stand up guy that has a bad *** day job in composites so I just figured I would let it be. I did try to convince him otherwise. I think he does it as a service to the 911 community more than anything. I'm thinking about trimming the weltmeisters that I have to take the metal collars from the stock bushings and see if they live. Otherwise there's not a lot of choice. Ideolas garage just started selling poly bushings too, they may survive better than the red weltmeisters too.

s14kev

Not a huge amount of miles. Just over 2000miles in the last year. Definitely driven in the rain many times given that I'm in Tennessee. Seems it is constantly raining here.

There is the recurring question of why not use monoballs. I am happy to do so but thought this would be an interesting trial. I'll swap to them if they do become damaged or die. Also for the cost conscious, these are much more economical.

I actually feel better running urethane on a street car. For some reason I cringe whenever monoballs get wet. Those dinky little seals you can buy don't help since they usually just trap moisture under them accelerating the deterioration of the bearing. Not that it is that important in this car since most everything else is a solid bearing.

cpcca

Hi Guys
Just an update...Chris responded and said he would be happy to supply the bushing/grease kit. Here's his response.

"Sure, I can get you bushings.... You can paypal to this email address.

Let me know if you need any other info, happy to help. Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.

Best regards,
Chris"

He included price shipped and it's very fair! I'll be ordering/installing in the next few week and will report back. I would suggest that anyone interested just pm Chris for a quote to your location.

Thanks again to s14kev for sharing all the info and going to all the trouble and taking the time to make that video.

Kevin I agree that monoballs are really not the best solution on a street car. I l know some guys go the whole solid mount route and I get it. In fact I've been there done that over many years and on the track at 9-10/10ths it's worth those last winning seconds. But to me, on the street, that ruins the whole "civilized beast" character of the 951 and detracts from the driving pleasure... on the street.

For the record I think the whole "binding" issue is a non-issue. As to the individual attacks I say consider the source. Some members seem to have only negative comments...no matter what the subject matter. To each his own and that's part of this great Rennlist forum.

To me these "Walrod" bushing looks like a smart compromise and I can't wait to try them out!

As always thanks for a GREAT discussion
CC

s14kev

Happy to hear that people are trying these out. Keep this thread updated with your progress on the install and also some feedback once they are in use.

beamishnz

Very interesting tread - Forgive me for bringing it back to life. There is something that I'm not quite getting about the Delrin/urethane type front bushes. With the factory bush everything is locked up and the rotation of the control arm is accommodated by a shear twist of the rubber. Am I right in thinking that with the delrin/urethane options the bush doesn't twist like rubber so something else has to move? Either the mushroom washer against the inner face of the cross member or the delrin/urethante against the mushroom washer ... or am I missing something???

superloaf

Are these bushings still available, where can I buy them, and how much do they cost?

Jason @ Paragon Products

We carry them:

http://www.paragon-products.com/prod...-cabushkit.htm

but there are other options now too:

http://www.paragon-products.com/Pors...p/mc-8000d.htm

cpcca

Hi gang
It's been awhile. I just saw a new post on this thread so thought I would update. I installed these on my 86 951 in 2013. At the same time I also rebuilt the arm ball-joints, installed new updated oem pillow blocks, urethane rack bushings, new tie-rod ends and urethane bushings and stiffeners on the sway bar. The car already had weltmeister springs so sits about 1/2" lower (euro height?) Alignment was done to oem specs.
It's been about 3 yrs and 10,000 mi of very spirited back road driving and one autocross with no problems. Still as precise as new and no binding or squeaking. I agree with all the positive reports. These bushings seem to be superior to oem in every way. Very happy! If they are still available I highly recommend them. Thanks Chris and everyone here for the advice.
Cpcca